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Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

 
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2009, 03:47 PM
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Re: Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

Just looking for a starting point..........
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2009, 06:47 PM
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Re: Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

WHETHERBY460, Welcome to LRH

In agreement with other posts, what your rilfe does at 100 yds doesn't necessarily reflect what it will do at 750 or farther. There are a number of things that could affect that, probably the biggest being your load consistancy. Once you start getting out to 700 yards and farther, inconsistancies in your load will start showing where they wont show at closer distances. Mainly talking about velocity here.

Groups are only a measure of your rifle's potential to be repeatable when it comes to hunting. BR shooters are allowed sighters. In a hunting situation that is usually not the case. You need to be able to make a good hit on the first shot.

To more directly answer your question, I would be looking for about .5 MOA or better @ 100 yds to show potential out to 750, depending on your target size, i.e., elk or deer, etc. If my target is going to be deer I want to be very consistantly hitting about a 10" ring at 750, ON THE FIRST SHOT, which is a little over MOA. if your rifle is shooting .5 MOA @ 100 yds, other facters will probably push that out a little at 750, plus making it the first shot accuracy vs group precision. Load consistancy and wind are going to be your biggest nemesis.

Where to start? Once your rifle is sighted in, get out to at least 200 yds and farther for load development. 300-400 yds is where you start to see your load's consistancy. Pay more attention to the verticle distance vs the horizontal for the quality of your load. Once you think you have a good load and your rifle is properly set up and tuned, then spend most of your time shooting at the distances you want to shoot game at. Use the same target for your first shots. The first shot is what it's all about. This is where you'll learn a lot about wind and what your limitations are.

Hope that helps,

Mark

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 11-22-2009 at 06:51 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2009, 04:03 AM
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Re: Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

My vertical grouping is spectacular, I am sure I am holding that under 1/2" out of 10 younds I have shot. My hoizontal group seems to be a little worse, but a touch under an inch. What are typical causes for horizontal errors?

Thanks
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2009, 08:03 AM
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Re: Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

Your horizontal spread could be any number or combination of things including wind, rifle, scope, shooter all of which can also affect the verticle spread. Make sure your action is clean and snug in the bed of the stock and your rings and bases are also snug and torqued properly. Practice your basic marksmanship skills and fine tune your load. Once you know the rifle, scope and yourself are squared away you'll be able to tune your load better and learn how to deal with the wind. Move out to 200 yds or better yet, 300-400 yds. 100 yds just isn't going to tell you much.
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2009, 04:37 PM
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Re: Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

Couple of places to start on horizontal spread.

Parallax may be the problem. Does your scope have parallax adjustment and do you know how to use it. While you are at it did you adjust the eyepiece of the scope to fit your personal vision requirements.

Second place to look is the pressure point. It is standard and customary for Wby to use a pressure point near the end of the forearm. I do not know for sure that it is true of your particular rifle but if that pressure point is not just exactly correct the barrel will shift as it heats up. Do not take out the pressure point unless you are willing to live with the results which may be either good or bad

Well I just reminded myself. Shooting too fast will cause a Wby to spray bullet like a skunk in a cat fight. You should be waiting about 10 minutes between shots.
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2009, 06:59 PM
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Re: Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

I have been a huge advocate of group size for LR hunting. I still am........ to a point. I want a 1/2 MOA or less rifle/load at 300 yards. That doesn't mean it shot a small group ONCE....I mean every time you go to the range.....REPEATABLE!!!! Now I know the gun will shoot where I point it. Now, you need to know precisely what your velocity, BC, and scope height are. Now, the things that change every day.....temp, elevation, is your ammo hot or cold (do you have it sitting on the heater vent in your truck, or is it in your cold chamber outside where it is 10 below ...some powders are more prone to changes)....ect.... What was 3000 fps this summer will almost certainly be less in November.....check it with the temps as near as possable as when you plan on hunting. I start with a 300 yard zero (5 shots, each taken at least 10 min apart...ie..a cold boar zero) and dial up from there, but you need to be precisly zeroed.....not kinda sorta maybe!!!! If you are going to hunt with a bipod, then zero with the bipod on the gun. Some of the guns that are not free floated will change POI when you install/uninstall it. Practice, practice, practice....at very extended ranges. What I am saying is if you dial up for a 700 yard shot on a dear/elk/bear/terrorist.....whatever.....you need to know that that is where it is going to hit. A nice three inch 5 shot group that misses by 15 inches at 700 yards does you no good!!!! So much for group size.

How are you going to compensate for the distance....dial up, a multiple dot reticle.....? On my scope is taped the following info: Dial up chart from 300 to 1500 yards in 25 yard increments. I realy don't need them to be be every 25 yards for the first 700 yards...50 might do, but they should be 10 yards apart when you get past 1000 yards. A wind chart in 100 yard increments from 300 to 1500 yards for 5, 10 ,15, 20, 25, and 30 mph wind speeds. I use a NF 8-32 NSX with the NP-R2 reticle. I have a chart with the hold overs with the scope set at 22 power (2 moa hash marks) 17.5 power (3 moa hash marks) and 11 power (4 moa hash marks). When you dial up 20 MOA/inches on your turret, does the scope actualy move 20. Or does it move 18....or 22....or worse yet 18 one time and 22 the next. When I set up my program to make the charts,I use the elevation where I hunt, and I make an educated gues as to the environmental perameters. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW!!!. When you strech the distance WAAAYYYY out there, EVERYTHING MATTERS!!!!!!!

Now, (and this is my biggest fault) get your ass off of the bench and shoot in field positions!!!!! I spend 90 % of my hunting time in my shack where I use my bench equipment, but I truly feel ill equiped if I need to shoot elsewhere.

I guess what I am saying is that it is that first shot that counts.

I guess the reason I am changing my tune a little bit as of late is because I have some of my friends whos' guns I have developed loads for, and most are very good grouping guns, complain because they are missing at long range. Hitting high or low. 90 % of the problem is that the gun is not zeroed properly, thier chrono data is off a little, scope/rifle cant, or they simply didn't shoot the gun...AT ALL.....NO PRACTICE WHAT SO EVER!!!!ect......or a combination. And they call me 3/4 of the way through season!!!!

Have fun, ....and PRACTICE

Last edited by 4xforfun; 11-23-2009 at 07:06 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2009, 03:01 AM
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Re: Whats an acceptable group size for lrh?

Thanks +everyone for the great advice to get me started.

However, I just discovered my burris scope is faulty. Now I have to shop for a new scope.
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