I JUST READ AN ARTICLE WHERE A SHOOT / WRITER MADE AN "EXTREME" RANGE SHOT OF 587 YARDS. NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT TO EACH PERSON LONG RANGE AND EXTREME RANGE HAVE DIFFERENT BOUNDRIES. I KNOW THAT I CONSIDER LONG RANGE TO BE OUT TO 600 YARDS, A SHOT TO BE MADE WITH A "GOOD" HUNTING WEIGHT RIFLE. I CONSIDER EXTREME RANGE TO BE BEYOND 600 YARDS AND SHOTS MADE WITH THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT. NOW I KNOW LOTS OF GUYS THAT ARE AVERAGE HUNTERS, NOT BAD, JUST AVERAGE. I BELIEVE THAT MOST OF THEM CONSIDER 300 YARDS + TO BE A EXTREMELY LONG SHOT. I AM INTERESTED TO KNOW WHERE THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD SET THE LONG / EXTREME RANGE BOUNDRIES.
I see your question as a two parter. Depending on the caliber 587 yards may be an extreme distance, such as shooting something with a .17 HMR at that distance. Now I think that would be an extreme distance for that round.
But with most centerfire rifles I feel long range starts at 350 yards and goes out to around 1000 yards depending on caliber.
Beyond a 1000 yards in my book is an extreme distance IMHO!
Hope it helps,
[ 10-05-2004: Message edited by: Jeff In TX ]
Distance is not an issue, but the wind will make it interesting!
Let's assume you have a range finder and a good drop table, for me, short range is where I can hold on the target and hit it in most reasonable condition.
Long range happens when wind doping (holding off the target) becomes necessary and missing due to conditions is a real possibility. For the most part, you can Kentucky your shots with a high degree of success.
Extreme range is where spotter shot(s) are going to be needed just to confirm conditions. One shot, one hit is really a matter of luck.
So distance is really moot. A 22LR is going to be at extreme range at 350yds in moderate wind if trying to hit a pop can. A High BC super zapper is going to be at short range at 600yds on a bull moose in the dead calm of morning.
For distance shooting, your ability to judge and cope with conditions defines whether the shot is long or short. Of course, experience and equipment play a huge role.
That writer may have been shooting in gusty conditions with a 308 while kneeling. Now that would indeed have been very long range. However, I shoot and hit clays at 600 to 800yds with my LR rifles. A 585yd poke at a much larger target in light conditions, off a bench is pretty straight forward.
Not a cut and dry answer but I hope this adds more depth to our intrigue of the LR sport.
I guess your explanation/offering sums it up about as well as I've ever seen it done.
I sort of take exception to the Kentucky thing as I think of it (Kentucky) being more guess than experience but I believe you offered it in the educated "hold off" variant moreso than in the "let'r fly" model.
(I'd agree that 350 yards at a soda can with a 22RF would be pretty hard. We had that 300 yard 22RF thing at a CD and TP roll outline and I had a fairly difficult time.)
Everything requires explanation, "hard" is a difficult word to define, as is "extreme". Nothing new, there.
Long range, until you define it, generally means difficult and uncertain, or beyond ordinary capacity. If you have the means, then it removes some of the uncertainty, but there will always be coping of wind and mirage; and if speaking of a hunting situation, the distance that your target can move while the bullet is in flight.
This is the major problem with the concept. Is it ethical (taboo subject) to be shooting a game animal at what is considered "extreme" range, by others?
Clue: the title of this forum is, LONG RANGE HUNTING. So you have to be a competent shooter, with accurate gear, or you might risk being labeled as irresponsible.
What it says to me is that we all have our own limitations. My personal limit, with my best gear, is not much beyond five hundred yards. I would not presume to place limitations on what others are capable of doing. This also means that my equipment needs to be accurate, and capable of actually killing the animal.
However, it's a valid question. Where does LONG RANGE start? Sort of like; how much is too rich?
Depends. First you have to define it and then you have to qualify it. Difficult to define, and it takes talent to qualify. My long range may be someone else's extreme range.
I'd say that the attempt should have a very high degree of success, excluding spotters or second shots. That's just my personal opinion. But there is always going to be personal "opinion" with a question of this nature.
For sake of argument, we can discount our wife's opinion as invalid. Interesting and(?) useful, but invalid. Ditto the 30/30 carbine affectionados.
As with the PSY 101 question concerning a tree falling in the forest.... If no one is there, to hear it, does it make any noise? The question of extreme range hunting becomes also, philosophical.
Bravo very good question,me and my hunting
companion (nephew) have contemplated this
very topic 100's of times this is as good as
I can remember what we came up with.
From the passenger side front tire (lr) to
50 yards (er) with 38special or 40s&w, from
51yards (lr) to 150Yards (er) 22l.r. from
151yds (lr) to 300yds(er)17hmr from 301 yds
(lr)to 500yds(er)222&223rem from 501yds (lr)
slow twist, 1001yards (lr) to 1515yds (er)
6mm-284 fast twist or 6.5 284 for 1516yds
and beyond we are in the process of working
on it even as we speak (or type) 338wiz bang
hopefully to a mile or more.
will keep you posted