Long Range Hunting Online Magazine

Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > Long Range Hunting & Shooting

Long Range Hunting & Shooting Nightforce Optics


Velocity or Energy

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 11-10-2012, 09:25 PM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 48
Velocity or Energy

G'Day all.

I'm trying to make a more informed decision for a hunting rifle and would like to hear peoples thoughts on the penetration power or high velocity vs high energy calibres/projectiles.

I primarily hunt large feral pigs in the 100-150kg range at 150-350 metres (soon to be 500m +) and need good penetration to hit running pigs and either smash large bones or leave a decent exit wound. I often shoot 10-15 rounds in 1-2 mins and so can't go much past a .308 recoil wise.

Most people will instantly say the larger calibre with heavier projectiles will have better penetration. At some point though a lighter but faster bullet with have more penetration. I have seen 22-250 punch through steel when a .308 wouldn't.

I know shooting steel is a lot different to travelling through 2" of mud and then 2 feet of flesh and bone.

Obviously bullet selection is critical but i use nothing but controlled expansion bullets with extremely high weight retention (Primarily Accubonds).

So at what speed would a 100-140gn pill have equal or better penetration to 180gn .308 at 2600?

Basically just looking to see if there is a smaller/faster/flatter calibre than my preferred .308 which will give equal or greater penetration for equal or less recoil?
Reply With Quote

Unread 11-11-2012, 12:31 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,332
Re: Velocity or Energy

Unless you intend to use monometal bullets, I don't think speed is the answer to the set of problems that you have defined. I believe that sectional density, higher bc, and moderate velocity is the answer to your problem set.

I would be looking at 6.5 or 7mm chamberings in the 7x57/7-08 or 6.5x55/.260 class. Both offer bullets with better bc's and greater sectional density than the .308. Both will also fly flatter and reciol less than the .308. The 7's will offer greater flexibility in bullet weight than the 6.5's.

With either the 6.5 or 7's, you may find that premium bullets are not necessary. Both also retain the option of going with bonded bullets in the optimum weight ranges for each caliber/chambering.
Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2012, 03:20 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northeast
Posts: 3,624
Re: Velocity or Energy

I agree with Benchracers answer. John Taylor, an African hunter over a century ago had a similiar question and devised a "Knock out" formula for solids for use on big game. Overall ot took bullet diameter, weight, and velocity into consideration and proved to be a useful approach. It csn be loosely applied to bonded bullets to give a fairly good comparison. The formula is;

(Bullet diameter x velocity x bullet weight) / 7000 = knock out value

308. 180x2600x.308/7000= 20.6 KO
6.5. 140x2950x.264/7000= 15.6 KO
338. 300x2750x..338/7000=39.8KO
223. 69x3000x .223/7000= 6.6KO

Not perfect because bullet performance comes into play but itdoes speak to killing power and gives a comparison that applies multiple factors which is somewhat answering your question.

"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready"-T. Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2012, 07:48 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,155
Re: Velocity or Energy

I have to agree, but what about using a 125-150 bullet in .308 running it at high velocity. I know that Barnes makes a smaller weight mono metal bullets. They have a 110, 135, and 150 grain bullet. Run them with a 24" or longer barrel with a healthy dose of H4895, IMR 4064, H335, IMR 4895, CFE223, Benchmark, XBR8208. All of these produce phenomenal velocities with light .30 cal bullets. I looked at some load data on the Hodgdon site and they are claiming 3350fps with the 110 TSX. That will get you out to you prescribed distances. If you want a little more weight, go with the 135's. That would get good penetration with weight retention. With my playing with Alliant Power Pro 2000MR, you should be able to get the 150's over 3000fps.

Not to mention the lighter bullet would reduce recoil too. I remember loading 110 Hornady V-max in my .308 was a joy to shoot.
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2012, 07:52 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,194
Re: Velocity or Energy

It realy takes both and should fall within the bullets performance range.

I would kook at the 260 rem or the 7/08. both are based on the 308 and would be an easy
rebarrel job for your 308.

Both the 260 (6.5) and the 7/08 (284) have a great selection of bullets and will exceed 3000
ft/sec with the right bullet.

Recoil will be less and ballistics and velocity will be better.

When I competed in 500 meter running boar competition the preferred cartrige was the 7/08
for speed,accuracy and lack of recoil for follow up shots.

I have killed many 300+ pound pigs at 500+ yards and made many squeal beyond 800 yards.

With a 308 as the max you want, ether of these will do the job well and not require an extensive
re build.

Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2012, 09:50 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Posts: 2,805
Re: Velocity or Energy

I would go 7/08 with the 168 grain lrx, should get you out to about 600 yards before velocity is too low for expansion.

I'm 18
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
~George Washington

"The only advantage a light rifle has is weight, all other advantages go to the heavy rifle."
~ JE Custom

Biggest fail of 2014 so far... http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...ea-ftf-128972/

My guess on W3P .308 230 Grain Bullet: G1 .740-.755
Reply With Quote
Unread 11-11-2012, 10:32 AM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montana
Posts: 51
Re: Velocity or Energy

I recently met a guy that is developing a new cartridge that is exactly what you are looking for I will look for his card and get a link for you. what I remember is its a necked up 308 to .458(dont quote me on that), running on AR platform. they are getting close to releasing with pressure tests done, and accuracy and ballistics look good of course he is wanting to sell them so of course thats what he will tell people. I will follow up later on this.
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads for: Velocity or Energy
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much Energy is needed to take an Elk? texasmeathunter Elk Hunting 13 04-14-2013 10:42 AM
energy requirements peppy1hunting Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 16 02-17-2006 06:29 AM
lower velocity/energy limit MK performance on big game sscoyote Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 4 07-13-2003 08:29 PM
Energy Red Neck Long Range Hunting & Shooting 1 12-21-2001 08:16 PM
Retained Energy Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 1 12-14-2001 06:38 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:41 AM.

All content ©2010-2015 Long Range Hunting, LLC