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Is ultra mag really necessary

 
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2003, 09:24 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Schofield, WI.
Posts: 323
Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

DC, Thanks for the info, I know when you heat that barrel up she won't last to long, my sons 22-250 gets way to hot after 10 shots. While I got ya DC, is there any truth to you guys shootin' Pdogs out to 2k? And hitting them with any regularity, Buddy told me he read that in his Precision shooting Mag. said they were using 6mms and 243s, I never saw the article myself, said he was going to bring it to work. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] J P.S. And where can I find books with world records for shooting events?

[ 03-18-2003: Message edited by: Jay Gorski ]
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2003, 01:21 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Bubb,

I am not in the league of most of these guys, thats for sure. My self imposed limit on killing big game is 650 yards - not very far compared to most guys here.

As you probably know I am now making my own bullets. Testing is ongoing. Using my 159gr EXP Groove Bullet out of a 300 win mag with a 26" barrel we got an average velocity of 3410 FPS. I haven't run it through a program (yet) to determine energy levels at 1000 yards but I have no doubt that bullet would go through a deer, braodside, double lung shot at 1000 yards. The geometry of the bullet and its construction play a role in what it is going to do when it enters a deer.

Onto a rifle: A less expensive route may be this. Take the action of preference (I used a Rem 700) and add a good S/S barrel of 26", the stock of your choice (I like the McMillan Hunter Class stock), adjust the stock trigger to 2 1/2lbs, add good bases, rings and a scope and you have a relatively inexpensive 1000 yard rifle. You can always go for a bigger rifle later. I started with the 300 win mag but there are others that would work well.

Whatever you decide practice, practice and practice some more.

Don
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2003, 02:19 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,459
Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Monte, a 223 will kill a PD at extreme ranges, IF you can hit it. There are those that are trying to shoot PD's at 2miles. How much retained energy/expansion will these give?

We are so lucky that we have access to all of these wonderful cartridges. Most are excessive for hunting but what the heck, variety is the spice of life. Over the years, we READ the exploits of many writers and use their experience as a basis for our gun choices.

The fact that many are funded by manf dollars is moot. New tech leads to new articles which sells magazines and rifles. Fashion changes our paradimes (sp).

In all this we have forgotten that HUNTERS have used the 303Brit and 7mm Mauser to kill all the big heavy stuff in Africa 100yrs ago. Today, articles are written that tell you need a fire breathing magnum to kill an 80lb whitetail from a tree stand inside 50yds.

The vast majority of modern hunters only get to take one large game a year, so in a lifetime, there is still very little experience. Throw in the normal screw ups of hunting and hunters want bigger power, just to be sure. At least that is what they have read.

So "rural" legends of so many ft-lbs, and premium bullets and magnum cartridges start. They make sense to most reading (lack of experience) and form a basis for comparison. Again, a situation of the marketer leading the inexperienced.

Not saying this is a bad thing, I like my RUM and 240gr MK at 3100fps, it can just lead to some conflicting conclusions. Why are there handgun hunters when a 30-30 is not enough? How come all those buffalo died when shot at long range with blackpowder cartridges - pretty "lousy" vel./energy stats?

My father in law has killed a lot of deer over his 35yrs of hunting. He doesn't know anything about ft-lbs, new cartridges, fancy bullets. He just knows that his 303 Lee Enfield drops them dead when the softpoint enters the boiler room. He also knows how to get to where he can make such a shot.

As always, use enough gun (so what the heck is enough and get that bullet (any bullet)into the boiler room. Without a heart or lungs, any animal is going to expire. How long it takes is anyones guess, but eventually they will fall.

I think if you surveyed hunters anywhere in the world, you will find that there is no magic cartridge and bullet that will ensure one shot/drop'em in their tracks performance, everytime. Exclude spine, brain shots or 105mm rds.

The bottom line is that a skilled hunter armed with a "lethal" device, will take game at the ranges and situations he/she feels confident in. The rest of us need more practise...not necessarily bigger hardware.

Jerry
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2003, 03:15 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 3
Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

I hunted for 10 years with a 30-30, so on one hand I know what you are saying,but on the other hand I now shoot a 300rum and I believe you are wrong about dropping them everytime.Inside 200 yards a shoulder shot will drop themeverytime,at least that is my opinion.
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2003, 08:16 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Hammer,

If I wanted to, I could drop a moose every time just by shooting it in the front shoulders too, but why the hell would I want to waste all that damn meat? If I thought I could do it every single shot, behind the head right in the spine is a no-nonsense aproach that turns the lights out INSTANTLY. I could put one down with a well placed shot in the hip too, but the meat is an issue and so is killing the thing. For the long ranger the double lunger offers the biggest kill zone, leaves the biggest blood trail, especially if the bullet exits, and always kills, period. I'm not against going through a shoulder to get the lung, but to just shoot shoulders to knock them down seems counter productive.

I have not shot my 300 Ultra enough to know when the barrel is going to fall off in accuracy. I don't let the barrel heat up in any of them when practicing though. In our weather 1 shot every 2-3 minutes keeps things plenty cool. This action will get a new custom barrel before I find out so...

If you can get Remington to sell you an action for 220 bucks I'll be the first in line. More than likely they'll give you one of there tomato stakes for 220 and keep the action. That's about all the barrel and action are worth though, too bad we have to spend 3-500 bucks for a doner when we need one.
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Brent Moffitt
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  #20  
Old 03-19-2003, 08:16 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 3
Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Brent, I started all my hunting on heavily hunted state land,and now I m ussually in a swamp far from no where,I ll take the meat loose and drop them,but I understand your point.
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