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Is ultra mag really necessary

 
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  #1  
Old 03-16-2003, 08:12 PM
 
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Is ultra mag really necessary

Okay, for my first long range gun I was thinking of the 300 ultra mag. But for my first lng range rig do I really need all that? I figure it will take me awhile to work out to 1000 yards anyway! So if I plan on staying inside 1k wouldn't 300 win mag or wsm in bull barrel be a better way to start? Boyd aren't you shooting a 300 wsm at the 1k match? That would take a PA deer that far and closer right? Just like archery all about placement. All I need is to stick with bullets with high bc. and practice?? I'm not sure but the 300 win mag, and wsm should with the right bullet have enough energy to 1K for white tail. Thanks for input. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2003, 04:37 AM
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Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Bubb

For a new shooter desiring to shoot to 1000 yards on game I usually recommend a 300 Win Mag. Get a good rifle from a reputable gunsmith (setup for Federal Gold Medal Match 190 load). Buy a set of heavy duty rings and bases, install a good scope and buy 1000 rounds (single LOT number) of factory Federal Gold Medal Match (GMM) 190's. IMHO you now have an accurate and capable rifle that is designed to shoot factory ammo. You can reload for it if you wish or you can shoot the Federal GMM. I shoot/hunt tactical (sniper) style, bipod and sandsock, first round hit scenario...
If the 300 Win Mag GMM ammo is not to your liking you can sell it for your cost quite easily (assuming you buy it at a good price (www.ammoman.com or the like).
When you go for your second or subsequent rifle (post 300 WM) you can sell the 300 WM or rebarrel/chamber it but you've had the opportunity to learn on a rifle shooting known accurate ammo with a minimum of tinkering. (Less tinkering means more shooting and more (good style/proper technique) shooting shoot equate to a better shooter.)
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Old 03-17-2003, 08:13 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Schofield, WI.
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Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Bubb, Just checking out my ballistic tables, and a 30cal. 165gr boattail loaded to 3000fps has 759ftlbs @1k, I'm no expert but sounds a bit marginal for deer, not that it won't take one down. Alot of things can play with that bullet at that range, and you need a rifle that puts 5 shots into a 10" pie plate at 1k to make a humane kill. Oh, it's nice to say I shot a deer at 1000yds, I'd like to say that myself, but like Clint Eastwood says, "A mans got to know his limitations" Talk to Kevin Thomas, 'Master shooter'(Chief Ballistian from Sierra) how he feels about shooting past 400yds. Please Someone tell me if I'm not making any sence. Jay [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 03-17-2003, 08:35 AM
*WyoWhisper*
 
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Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Jay,
you do make sense but.. this is LRH so hunting past 400 yards is what we are looking for...

In my data...

the 168 gr SMK from the 300 winny you can achieve 3200 fps fairly easily...
that will give you 1054 ft lbs at 800.. enough for deer..
I feel you need 1000 ft lbs for deer and 2000 ft lbs for Elk... just my .02

If you shoot the 190 SMK you can achieve 2900fpa fairly easily with the winny...
that gives you 860 lbs at 1k and if you can get 3000fps that will give you 938 ft lbs at 1K.
You need 3075fps ( muzzle velocity ) to get to 1000 ft lbs at 1K using 190s and my program...

now all this doesn't mean a freakin thing if you are not accurate.. I have been shooting the 308 for 2 years.. to get myself to a level where I am confident to kill out to 1K. My hunting limitation for deer with the 308 was 750 yards. So I am having a 300 RUM built as we type this to get me to 1K and beyond...

I have shot several 3" groups at 500 yards with my 308 and I havn't shot for score at 1K but I have consitiently hit volleyball sized targets throughout the 2 years at over 1K and now I feel I am ready to go further...

I shoot alone alot so if you have a buddy you will probobly get better faster....

but all I can say is practice practice paractice.. Just this past summer to now I have shot 1052 rounds....according to my notebook... that includes 70 rounds on sat at distances from 500 to 1150...

FYI....

[img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 03-17-2003, 09:22 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Jay

Most ballistics tables, or I should say loading books, you can throw out the window.
They are based on short barrel test rifles that will NEVER duplicate the actual ballistics we get from our over sized wildcat cartridges and the velocity we need and get, to do the job. You will probably not find our cartridges in a loading book either.

Even the boys at Sierra don't use what we have been using for many years now.

We can make humane kills a lot further then just 1000 yards. 1000 Yards is sometimes just the starting point for our guns.

Talk to Rich Marcholtz at Sierra and he will enlighten you as to what we do. I report to him every year as the the kills we make with the Sierra MK.

Loading books are based on 26" (or shorter) factory guns and the loads are many times not near max, we have found.

Our rifles have 30" to 40" barrels and the length does make a "BIG" difference.

Hope that helped [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

DC

[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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Old 03-17-2003, 09:22 AM
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Location: Richmond Va
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Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Bubb, I see "Life in Potter". IF that is Potter County, Pa. please email me.

Randy Cullinan
rcullinan@direcway.com
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  #7  
Old 03-17-2003, 09:24 AM
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Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Is ultra mag really necessary

Randy

I'm in Cameron County PA which borders Potter County.

Are you looking for a place to "stretch the legs" of that 408?????
I have it but, you have to use it before the leaves get on the trees.

DC

[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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