Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > Long Range Hunting & Shooting

Long Range Hunting & Shooting Nightforce Optics


Reply

TTSX at Long Range?

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #15  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:35 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bend, Or
Posts: 304
Re: TTSX at Long Range?

There is no way a TTSX will expand as much as an Accubond at longer distances.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:36 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Posts: 2,510
Re: TTSX at Long Range?

Being an avid Barnes user, I do have some Bergers, Swift, Hornady & pretty much anything else...

The Barnes will never expand to the size of "more conventional" designs, i.e. Accubomb, PT, SST, Scirocco etc. Barnes weren't designed to do so. What they were designed to do is break bone & track straight. It is called the conservation of angular momentum. The larger the cross sectional area of the "mushroom" the more resistance the bullet encounters: the more resistance, the less penetration you will achieve. The increase in cross sectional area of the mushroom the larger the amount of rotational velocity required to retain appropriate gyroscopic stability to achieve a straight wound channel.

Think about the figure skaters you see during the olympic events. While spinning at obsene velocities (makes me dizzy just watching) the hands & arms of the skater are tucked tightly to the body, when they desire to stop they simply stick out their arms & leg.... voila! They stop VERY quickly.

No rotational velocity = no gyroscopic stability. Inadequate stability equates into a substantial increase in the possibility of events like tumbling or inadequate penetration or finding the bullet or exit hole in really weird places....


Berger brings a new pattern to the game, from what i've seen (VERY limited knowledge here), they don't mushroom to an enormous amount. They fragment, thus retaining an acceptable frontal profile. The caveat here being, the heavy for caliber Bergers being used offer 2 positive points to the shooter. One being the high increase in BC & we ALL know the merits of BC
Two being the extra weight necessary to a highly fragmentive bullet to retain enough weight to actually exit the animal. Sectional Density is a wonderful thing....

Barnesuser, the ad on their website is mostly marketing hype. the Berger will wipe the floor with Barnes on "hydralic shock". The Barnes will wipe the floor with Berger on Penetration, it's all in the characteristics of the bullets.

We ALL need to decide for ourselves, how much "deposited" energy & how much structural integrity is required to do the job for us on based on our INDIVIDUAL needs. As we all know, there is no "one bullet fits all". Which only enhances our knowledge as we all strive for perfection.

With the advent of the TTSX & LRX, I honestly believe Barnes has identified & improved upon the "questionable expansion" topics we all love to hash. The polymer tip WILL initiate expansion at lower velocities, but REMEMBER what most (if not all) Barnes shooters have learned (sometimes the hard way). Break bone, break bone, break bone. They were NOT designed to slip behind the shoulder at extended ranges, they WILL zip right through with minimal expansion "penny size or so" just as they were DESIGNED to do.


Just my .002 (yes thousandths) worth of diatribe.... Good shooting to all!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:38 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 4422′44″N 1082′35″W
Posts: 3,814
Re: TTSX at Long Range?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WapitiBob View Post
Everything I read here tells me Barnes are made to hit bone, Bergers are for soft tissue.
Accubond is a good mix of both. I'm using 140 AB for Antelope and Elk this year. Elk only I would probably go 150+
an antelope wont know the difference in a 140 or a 150, and elk certainly may in some circumstances, I recommend going as heavy as possible for elk.
__________________
Mike

Anything less than overkill is underachievement!

" Real elk guns start with the number 3 or bigger and blow two holes, one in and one out." - My Dad
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:44 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 4422′44″N 1082′35″W
Posts: 3,814
Re: TTSX at Long Range?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw6.0 View Post
Being an avid Barnes user, I do have some Bergers, Swift, Hornady & pretty much anything else...

The Barnes will never expand to the size of "more conventional" designs, i.e. Accubomb, PT, SST, Scirocco etc. Barnes weren't designed to do so. What they were designed to do is break bone & track straight. It is called the conservation of angular momentum. The larger the cross sectional area of the "mushroom" the more resistance the bullet encounters: the more resistance, the less penetration you will achieve. The increase in cross sectional area of the mushroom the larger the amount of rotational velocity required to retain appropriate gyroscopic stability to achieve a straight wound channel.

Think about the figure skaters you see during the olympic events. While spinning at obsene velocities (makes me dizzy just watching) the hands & arms of the skater are tucked tightly to the body, when they desire to stop they simply stick out their arms & leg.... voila! They stop VERY quickly.

No rotational velocity = no gyroscopic stability. Inadequate stability equates into a substantial increase in the possibility of events like tumbling or inadequate penetration or finding the bullet or exit hole in really weird places....


Berger brings a new pattern to the game, from what i've seen (VERY limited knowledge here), they don't mushroom to an enormous amount. They fragment, thus retaining an acceptable frontal profile. The caveat here being, the heavy for caliber Bergers being used offer 2 positive points to the shooter. One being the high increase in BC & we ALL know the merits of BC
Two being the extra weight necessary to a highly fragmentive bullet to retain enough weight to actually exit the animal. Sectional Density is a wonderful thing....

Barnesuser, the ad on their website is mostly marketing hype. the Berger will wipe the floor with Barnes on "hydralic shock". The Barnes will wipe the floor with Berger on Penetration, it's all in the characteristics of the bullets.

We ALL need to decide for ourselves, how much "deposited" energy & how much structural integrity is required to do the job for us on based on our INDIVIDUAL needs. As we all know, there is no "one bullet fits all". Which only enhances our knowledge as we all strive for perfection.

With the advent of the TTSX & LRX, I honestly believe Barnes has identified & improved upon the "questionable expansion" topics we all love to hash. The polymer tip WILL initiate expansion at lower velocities, but REMEMBER what most (if not all) Barnes shooters have learned (sometimes the hard way). Break bone, break bone, break bone. They were NOT designed to slip behind the shoulder at extended ranges, they WILL zip right through with minimal expansion "penny size or so" just as they were DESIGNED to do.


Just my .002 (yes thousandths) worth of diatribe.... Good shooting to all!
Very well said!!! however I would like to add that an animal will still die even if the bullet doesnt expand much when hitting behind the shoulder might take a couple minutes but it WILL die soon. I have killed a lot of animals with Accubonds PT's and SMK's also so they all do it.
__________________
Mike

Anything less than overkill is underachievement!

" Real elk guns start with the number 3 or bigger and blow two holes, one in and one out." - My Dad
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:05 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,246
Re: TTSX at Long Range?

The mule deer that I shot two years ago was a double lung shot behind the shoulder. It died about ten feet from where it was shot. After it was shot it was like it didn't even know it was hit. It took two steps and bent its head down to eat and blood just started pouring out of its mout and nose and then it just fell over head first. When I gutted it, there was blood in the chest cavity but the organs were very clean and there was a small dime sized hole going through both lungs and no other damage to the lungs. Also a dime sized exit. I don't much like that. If I am going for vitals then I want the vitals blown up inside. I agree that Barnes bullets work MUCH better if you break bones. I am a behind the shoulder shooter so I had to switch to bergers.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:19 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Holland, MI
Posts: 1,535
Re: TTSX at Long Range?

I have to chuckle a bit at people who complain that their dead animal isn't dead enough. Don't get me wrong, we're all able and allowed to choose a bullet based on our own personal parameters and everyone is free to voice an opinion.
However, dead is still dead and as long as I don't have to track an animal a long distance I'm OK with dead.

Poor results (that is, not dead for a loooong time), poor shot placement, those are things that aren't much fun.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:43 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,608
Re: TTSX at Long Range?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
Negative, they create very little of it and that is why you can eat right up to the hole. I've never had an animal shot with a Barnes have multiple organs broken that were not in the direct path of the bullets, they have a very narrow but long wound channel. And don't forget if you hit them hard enough to shear the petals of in the first couple inches all you have is the shank, which gets it done if it stays on path and does not deflect.
Bigngreen is dead right.

Proper ballistics studies confirm that "Hydrostatic" shock doesn't kill for the same reason rifles don't blow people through doors and walls like in the movies. Similarly, a karate kick to the chest won't give a bull elk a heart attack.

Damage to vital tissue is what kills. And, that is caused by the bullet, or fragments of bullet and/or bone tearing away at tissue.

Barnes makes an excellent product. I've had good success with TTSX on whitetails. But, the opportunity/need to hunt with them past ~200yds hasn't arrisen. They have great accuracy and penetration especially when it comes to breaking bones. They are effective in a number of applications. But, they just aren't generally going to be as effective at the longer ranges as Berger. Convesely, I wouldn't shoot a buffalo with a Berger.

Load and shoot 100-200 Bergers and shoot them at 1000yds and do the same with TTSX or LRX (if you can afford it). ...then, let the wind decide.

-- richard
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: TTSX at Long Range?
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long range scope for long range muzzleloading The Duke007 Muzzleloader Hunting 6 12-16-2011 08:55 PM
Long Range Coyote Hunting With Short Range Rifles ADMIN Technical Articles - Discussion 3 02-28-2011 04:37 PM
Long time shooter new to Long Range Hunting in Wisconsin bulbwerks Member Introductions 3 08-27-2010 09:51 AM
Hart Long Range Target Stocks Long & Short Actions In Stock Stocky Equipment Discussions 0 08-13-2010 01:08 PM
TTSX or Scirocco for 7MM long range??? Elkslayer1 Long Range Hunting & Shooting 10 07-29-2010 10:45 PM

Current Poll
Do You Shoot Rifle Competition?
YES - 33.75%
764 Votes
NO - 66.25%
1,500 Vote
Total Votes: 2,264
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC