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Truth and cheat

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Unread 11-11-2008, 07:26 AM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,788
Re: Truth and cheat

First, my barrels I use are likely shorter than anyones that has posted, other than Kirby (he also uses specialty handguns sometimes).
I think some has been misunderstanding, and comparing apples with oranges in terms of distance, game and the way folks approach things.

If 600 yards is your max for game, that is a lot different that what most of the people who responded to were thinking about when you said LR.
For a good number of folks that is mid-range-Nothing wrong with that being your max for game, just using the terminology differently.
A number of these guys also hunt with bows, BP, etc., but they choose to shoot valley to valley at time and other times they will get within bow range with their guns.
You can argue semantics all you want about what your definition of hunting versus shooting is, but you are setting yourself up for a lot of arguing if choose to continue or push your definition on others in this area-that again is your choice.
Maybe you enjoy stirring the pot-I don't know.

Most here don't care about efficiency for LR hunting-they want performance.
They do not care if their barrels are heavier or longer-They want performance.
They don't care if their barrel life is short compared to a 6mmBR or a 308 Winchester-They want performance.

We understand what you are saying, but the things that are the "holy grail" for you, are not for a good number of people here.

Stubborness can go both ways.
If you want to be treated with respect, I would consider changing the way you communicate.
If you like to heat things up, expect strong responses back, and then at some point if it continues or escalates and you prove to people you can't play nice, you will be ignored and very few will respect or consider what you say. Again, your choice.

I really enjoy the 6mm', 6.5's and 7mm's myself as my favorites.
If elk is in the picture, then I go to the 7mm with the 200 grain Wildcats. I can only run them at 2700 fps from my 17 15/16 inch barrel.
Cartridge is the 7mm Dakota in a center-grip Remington XP-100.
It may not be efficient but it is sure accurate.
If I am not using them, then I use the 180 grain Berger or the 176 grain Carterucio's.

Sounds like you really love LR shooting, I hope you can find a home here.
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Unread 11-11-2008, 07:35 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sagauache County, Co...3170 sq miles, not a single stop light!
Posts: 684
Re: Truth and cheat

i did nap a little in math class, but i passed english with flying colors.... something you obviously skipped out on alltogether TRshooter. your assertions were all proven wrong with the facts by Shawn and should go hang out on the deerstalkers with bad english website. AJ
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Unread 11-12-2008, 11:44 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,841
Re: Truth and cheat


I always get a kick out of guys that will compare one round to another and make up some way to make one look dramatically better then the other, at least on paper. Come on fella, are you just opposed to a level playing field. YOu take a very high BC bullet in your 7mm RM which you are now loading to 3100 fps(???, load must have changed) and then say it retains more energy, velocity and has less drop and drift then a 300 RUM.

Unfortunately in the RUM, your using a very poor example of bullet for a ballistic comparision and then you berate those that would compare apples to apples and compare a VLD to VLD.

Also would like to add to your vast knowledge, its perfectly practical to drive a 210 gr bullet out of a 26" barreled 300 RUM at over 3100 fps!!! In fact I would say its a more comfortable load pressure wise they you are using with your 7mm RM loaded to 3100 fps with a 168 gr pill.

Also, another tid bit for you. You mention how effecient your 7mm RM is compared to the 338 Lapua. Have you ever figured the expansion ratio of the two rounds and compared them. I think not because if you have, you would see that the 7mm RM is far more dependant on barrel length then the 338 Lapua is.

If you look at barrel life, Again, I am sure you know this with your vast knowledge, but a 7mm Rem Mag will toast a throat every bit as quickly as a 338 Lapua, in fact, in most cases it will have a shorter throat life.

Your comment about efficency is interesting. Exactly how is a 7mm Rem Mag more efficent then the 338 Lapua? Yes it burns less powder but it also has a lighter bullet and a smaller bore.

Talk about close minded. The only one that is convinced of your opinion is you my friend.....

To take the very best bullet in one caliber and compare it to a common BC bullet in another caliber and say the smaller is better is silly but this is often the case.

I also thought we were on LRH, in fact you posted on the Long Range Hunting board. If your talking about punching paper or steel, go to another section of the board.

Also, if your putting limits on your criteria as to why the 7mm RM is as good as anything else, such as 600 yard shooting at big game, you should state that from the start as many on here would consider this moderate range hunting. I believe you have a bit of an opinion on shooting farther then 600 yards at big game as well but that is just a hunch.....

Anyway, the more you post, the clearer it becomes how you are really tunnel visioned about the whole thing and not willing to see the reality that is really out there.

Your 7mm will work fine, just do not say its better for long range hunting then a 300 RUM or 338 Lapua because thats simply a laughable comment and has no basis in fact at all. Perhaps on paper it looks more impressive then it is because I can assure you, your 7mm does not hold a candle to either for long range big game hunting, thats not from reading numbers on paper, thats from seeing many animals take bullets in the vitals from all three chamberings and knowing which is more impressive at long range.
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page:
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Unread 11-12-2008, 11:57 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 1,014
Re: Truth and cheat

Kirby, he's blowing the same hot air over on the Hide too.

It must be tough for him to learn as he has been told the same thing many times on two different sites.
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Unread 11-12-2008, 04:11 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Re: Truth and cheat

Yes you're right.... it's really tough to repeat always the same thing to a band of stubborn....

but on hide another "expert" hold the same speech than you.... 338 bla bla and my fu.... 300 bla bla..... I had a very rough tchat with him....

and today he shoot a 7mm Remington Magnum with 180gr Berger HPBT at 3000fps because this ex "stubborm" duplic 338 performance with less recoil, wearing etc etc....
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Unread 11-12-2008, 04:14 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Re: Truth and cheat

AH please to remember.... we can find expert at McMillan, Borden, Sako, Weaver Rifles....
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Unread 11-12-2008, 04:40 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 6,068
Re: Truth and cheat

Trshooter, which do you think would have a better effect on a bull elk @ 1000 yds...

a 210 Berger with a BC of .647 launched out of a 300 RUM @ 3150 fps?


a 168 Berger with a BC of .643 launched out of a 7mm RM @ 3050 fps?

And please explain your reasoning.

This should be good.
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