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Truth and cheat

 
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  #71  
Old 11-13-2008, 03:18 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 877
Re: Truth and cheat

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Oh, and BTW, if you're a reloader, the belted 7mm RM will probably be more expesive in the long run than the RUM or Dakota
I know this is from a L O N G time ago, but I am a S L O W reader.

I guess this statement could use a little explanation for my sake.


As far as the originator of this fine thread.......I think we can all agree...he needs a little more "NECK TENSION"....if you get my drift..................Can you say.......GROUP HUG.........A LITTLE HIGHER....YES......THAT'S IT.......BY THE ADAMS APPLE!!!


ARE WE HAVING FUN YET??
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  #72  
Old 11-13-2008, 03:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,954
Re: Truth and cheat

Quote:
Oh, and BTW, if you're a reloader, the belted 7mm RM will probably be more expesive in the long run than the RUM or Dakota
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xforfun View Post
I know this is from a L O N G time ago, but I am a S L O W reader.

I guess this statement could use a little explanation for my sake.
Sure, this is more of a guess on my part ( I use the word *probably*) as I have read from several very experienced loaders that belted cases don't last as long as non belted cases. I have reloaded for the 7mm RM up to 5 times with Rem, Fed and Win brass and so far they are still OK. But I would guess that when you compare apples to apples, loading for the RUM and RM with let's say Win brass, the RUM brass will last longer, maybe 2 or 3 times longer?

Anyone with experience loading for both of these want to chime in? Maybe I'm wrong?

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 11-13-2008 at 03:43 PM.
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  #73  
Old 11-13-2008, 04:56 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 670
Re: Truth and cheat

Not to stir the pot or side with anyone, but you can get way more than 3050 with a 168 berger. I get 3000 with a 180. Sure she's a little hot but doable. That being said past 1200 yards the 7 runs out of steam compared to the big .338's and 300's this is a fact.
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  #74  
Old 11-13-2008, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WI USA
Posts: 411
Re: Truth and cheat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trshooter View Post
Hi,

I'm tired, really tired to read or hear so many cheating "experts" say or advise hunter/shooter or simple novice to use two categories of new caliber....

The trend of WSM, RSM and "pro" URM, EDGE, Lapua etc... The true is the following for hunting or LR shooting YOU DON'T NEED to look for new "exotic" calibers !!!!!!

It's good to look into the future but in this case, it's a cheating lost of time... Firstly, If you use a "classical" 7mm Remington Magnum you have the best caliber for hunting and LR shooting.

Only one rule...... it's to select only good component :

Norma or Nosler Brass, CCI 250 primer, Sierra (160gr SBT) or Berger (168gr HPBT) Bullets and last but not the least a top powder like Norma MRP, Vithavuori VN, Hodgdon Retumbo or H1000. The Rifle ? a good custom rifle with a 26ic Match cut barrel or a good production rifle.

With this "basic" equipment, you should be able to get usually +3050/3100 Fps with a 168gr and 3000 Fps with a 175 or 180gr bullet.

Of course you can reach more speed with a "LARGE OVERBORE" like a 7mm STW, RUM or a 338 "SUPER SATELLITE" but for what price ?

More recoil, more powder, brass cost. You will need a longer barrel to extract more velocity, that is to say an heavier rifle. Last but not the least, you'll wear out your barrel far quickly than with a 7mm RM.

Some of you, are already thinking that they can get the same performance with their WSM honey... No buddy... The bad true is the following : Today classical Magnums like 7mm RM or 300 WM are down loaded !!!!! If you load your 7mm RM at the same pressure than a 7mm WSM, you will extract 100 fps or more with a 168grs bullet... New slow powders allow to maximize the 7mm RM potential.

Last word.... you don't need a 300 or a 338 caliber !!!! a 7mm Remington Magnum with a 168gr Berger Bullet at 3050 Fps retaine more velocity, energy and less drop at 1000 yds than a 300 RUM... it's a fact !!!!! it stand with a 338 Lapua at 1500 Yds...... no comment !


I have used the recipe of the 7mm Remington Magnum with a 160gr SBT or 168gr HPBT Berger Bullet with a 26 ic Barrel, stout load with top powder since many years now, and I can say you: it's the best in the field....

Today, I have read so many posts, articles with bias.... it's funny !!!! Only once I have heard something of right : It comes from the "best of the west" crew team. They use and recommand a 7mm Remington Magnum with a 168gr Berger Bullet under a stout but safe Retumbo load through a 26 ic barrel.... I have no time to put "figure" so look their web site (video, forum, articles) and maybe you'll understand... the link is the following : The Best of the West - Home

See you

I hope to help some of us to make a right and reasonable choice !!!!

Oh thank goodness you explained this to me. See I have been spending all this money on this and that when all I needed was a 7mm. I am going to sell everything but my 7mm. My safe will be empty. I will have so much room around the house.

While you are at it could you please let me know what ONE pair of boots I should keep and what ONE jacket I should keep and what ONE pair of hunting pants I should keep. If life is so simple that the 7mm is the end all it shouldn't be hard to cut back on the rest of my hunting junk as well.

Please write some more posts on how to pick one thing that will do everything. Here is a list of things I would like you to cover:

Boots
Pants
Jackets
Backpacks
Bino's

Scopes - lord knows if 7mm does everything there should be one scope that does everything.

Trucks - I need something that gets 50mpg for going back and forth to work - but it also needs to tow 10,000 lb when I am playing. By the way which is better Ford - Chevy or Dodge. I just cannot decide - I know you will clear that up for me.

Slings - there are so many out there - one has to be the overall besr

Shooting sticks - there has to be a one size fits all applications.

When I think of more I will edit my list for you.

Thanks for the good laugh. Hope you got a laugh out of my reply.

LOL
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  #75  
Old 11-14-2008, 11:35 AM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 877
Re: Truth and cheat

Quote:
Originally Posted by linksmechanic View Post
Not to stir the pot or side with anyone, but you can get way more than 3050 with a 168 berger. I get 3000 with a 180. Sure she's a little hot but doable. That being said past 1200 yards the 7 runs out of steam compared to the big .338's and 300's this is a fact.
You are right there. 26" Hart/RL25/168 JLK 71g...3050. 75g....3290!!!

This is so close to the edge it's silly. Very hard on brass. Very accurate. I would have gone with the 71g @3050, but .....not my gun.

Compared to a 300 SMK at 2800- 2900. Also...silly. Yes, the 7mm is 40 inches flatter at 1000 yards and has 2 inches less drift.

The drift is a NON-FACTOR, and you need to dial up the elevation with both, so it's no big deal do dial in an extra 4 MOA of elavation...also a NON-ISSUE

Energy.......no contest....300 SMK
Frontal area......no contest.......300 SMK
every thing else that counts........no contest.......300 SMK

The only problem I can see with the big .338 is............................................I DON'T HAVE ONE;)ge(

HAVE A NICE DAY
AND REMEMBER GUYS........MORE NECK TENSION!!!

Last edited by 4xforfun; 11-15-2008 at 10:51 AM.
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  #76  
Old 11-14-2008, 05:27 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PUEBLO, CO, USA
Posts: 1,093
Re: Truth and cheat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trshooter View Post
Hi,

I'm tired, really tired to read or hear so many cheating "experts" say or advise hunter/shooter or simple novice to use two categories of new caliber....

The trend of WSM, RSM and "pro" URM, EDGE, Lapua etc... The true is the following for hunting or LR shooting YOU DON'T NEED to look for new "exotic" calibers !!!!!!

It's good to look into the future but in this case, it's a cheating lost of time... Firstly, If you use a "classical" 7mm Remington Magnum you have the best caliber for hunting and LR shooting.

Only one rule...... it's to select only good component :

Norma or Nosler Brass, CCI 250 primer, Sierra (160gr SBT) or Berger (168gr HPBT) Bullets and last but not the least a top powder like Norma MRP, Vithavuori VN, Hodgdon Retumbo or H1000. The Rifle ? a good custom rifle with a 26ic Match cut barrel or a good production rifle.

With this "basic" equipment, you should be able to get usually +3050/3100 Fps with a 168gr and 3000 Fps with a 175 or 180gr bullet.

Of course you can reach more speed with a "LARGE OVERBORE" like a 7mm STW, RUM or a 338 "SUPER SATELLITE" but for what price ?

More recoil, more powder, brass cost. You will need a longer barrel to extract more velocity, that is to say an heavier rifle. Last but not the least, you'll wear out your barrel far quickly than with a 7mm RM.

Some of you, are already thinking that they can get the same performance with their WSM honey... Last word.... you don't need a 300 or a 338 caliber !!!! a 7mm Remington Magnum with a 168gr Berger Bullet at 3050 Fps retaine more velocity, energy and less drop at 1000 yds than a 300 RUM... it's a fact !!!!! it stand with a 338 Lapua at 1500 Yds...... no comment !


I have used the recipe of the 7mm Remington Magnum with a 160gr SBT or 168gr HPBT Berger Bullet with a 26 ic Barrel, stout load with top powder since many years now, and I can say you: it's the best in the field....

Today, I have read so many posts, articles with bias.... it's funny !!!! Only once I have heard something of right : It comes from the "best of the west" crew team. They use and recommand a 7mm Remington Magnum with a 168gr Berger Bullet under a stout but safe Retumbo load through a 26 ic barrel.... I have no time to put "figure" so look their web site (video, forum, articles) and maybe you'll understand... the link is the following : The Best of the West - Home

See you.

I hope to help some of us to make a right and reasonable choice !!!!

I second the motion... I dont know if it's really cheating but it is ADVERTISING. All subject to literary license. And I NEVER could 'get' the plethora of new rounds coming out from manufacturers. I mean how many gaps in th ballistic charts do they rounds really fill? I suspect none. Sure one could probably improve on the 300 H&H from 1912 and the 270 from 1925, but that work's already been done.

Anyway, every subtle change I make to my factory 26" 7mm Rem Mag Winchester rifle / scope setup proves to me just how good the thing really is right outta the box, as it were. Tho I shoot $pecialty ammo mo$tly, the nice thing is I can get good rounds in any general store, "keeps a dry gulcher in business"( quoting Tom Horn ).
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Last edited by silvertip-co; 11-14-2008 at 05:38 PM.
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  #77  
Old 11-14-2008, 08:30 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Alaska
Posts: 3,368
Re: Truth and cheat

Quote:
Originally Posted by linksmechanic View Post
Not to stir the pot or side with anyone, but you can get way more than 3050 with a 168 berger. I get 3000 with a 180. Sure she's a little hot but doable. That being said past 1200 yards the 7 runs out of steam compared to the big .338's and 300's this is a fact.
I get 3080 fps MV out of my 7mm RM with the 168 gr Berger VLDs & Retumbo powder out of a 24 3/8" barrel. That's about the most I'm willing to push it my rifle with that barrel length.
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