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Trigger timing, training, practice

 
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  #8  
Old 11-12-2011, 05:56 AM
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Great thread.
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2011, 08:01 AM
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Re: Trigger timing, training, practice

Another good way to get some trigger training on someone who has some bad habits with shooting is to have them dry fire first. Then without them seeing what you are doing, either load or not load a round and let the person shoot it. Watch their face, trigger finger and how they are holding the gun. You can see if they are flinching, jerking the trigger or just gripping the gun wrong. One can do all of this without wasting hardly any ammo. Once the person starts getting smoothed out, just drop a round in there and let the psychological effect take over. They will think its unloaded and will do everything right and drill the target. It takes a little while to break bad habits but you just have to get those good habits to be muscle memory. This is one good way I have done it without wasting a lot of ammo. If a person has bad shooting habits and they go to the range and just start slinging lead thinking that is going to fix their problems, they are just wasting rounds and money.
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:54 AM
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Re: Trigger timing, training, practice

[QUOTE=Korhil78;567388]Another good way to get some trigger training on someone who has some bad habits with shooting is to have them dry fire first. Then without them seeing what you are doing, either load or not load a round and let the person shoot it.

I've done this several times since the sixties and it still amazes me at the number of people who, fervently state they never flinch, flinch--Byron's Julia? I'll never forget the first time that was done to me--talk about embarrassing! I doubt if there's anyone who doesn't react to the shot; even those"only" hearing the gun go off. We can deny all we want, but each of us knows that try as we might, there's a reaction. The trick is to be so familiar--and as WR points out, train & practice--that we minimize that bump in our behavior that can reverberate to the barrel and mask our attempt to make but one hole where we aimed.
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  #11  
Old 11-15-2011, 03:47 AM
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Re: Trigger timing, training, practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korhil78 View Post
Another good way to get some trigger training on someone who has some bad habits with shooting is to have them dry fire first. Then without them seeing what you are doing, either load or not load a round and let the person shoot it. Watch their face, trigger finger and how they are holding the gun. You can see if they are flinching, jerking the trigger or just gripping the gun wrong. One can do all of this without wasting hardly any ammo. Once the person starts getting smoothed out, just drop a round in there and let the psychological effect take over. They will think its unloaded and will do everything right and drill the target. It takes a little while to break bad habits but you just have to get those good habits to be muscle memory. This is one good way I have done it without wasting a lot of ammo. If a person has bad shooting habits and they go to the range and just start slinging lead thinking that is going to fix their problems, they are just wasting rounds and money.
Yep, one I'd forgotten about. Good you brought it up.
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:55 AM
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Re: Trigger timing, training, practice

I compete in over a dozen competitive egg shoots a year at 200 and 300 yards. Tough shooting, harder than it looks. While most shooters use a sub one pound trigger, many of us use the same set up as our LR rigs in order to develop our skills for the field. Assuming the rifle is shooting, and wind effects are not causing bad results, misses are generally due to two causes most of the time, even with seasoned shooters. One is the subconscious loss of trigger control. A shooter can believe they have contol over the trigger sqezze but in fact have lost concentration and do not realize they are jerking the trigger. The other, often not even considered, is very common when shooting targets that are not "paper", is sight picture. Wether shooting an egg or a mule deer, the tendency is to be looking at the target instead of the crosshairs. You want to see the egg break or the deer fall. Easy to do because the sight picture appears to be in a two dimensional plane. Just like shooting a pistol, if you don't place total concentration on the crosshairs, the shot will off. It's a lot more obvious with a pistol though. I have seen this on numerous occasions. If a shooter is missing the mark with an accurate rifle and you instruct him to focus on the crosshairs, they start hitting. Also have seen this when a shooter is getting .5-1 MOA groups on paper and someone else with the same rifle gets cosistant .25 MOA groups. It is also easy to subconsciousy loose concentration on this technique.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:19 PM
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Re: Trigger timing, training, practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
I compete in over a dozen competitive egg shoots a year at 200 and 300 yards. Tough shooting, harder than it looks. While most shooters use a sub one pound trigger, many of us use the same set up as our LR rigs in order to develop our skills for the field. Assuming the rifle is shooting, and wind effects are not causing bad results, misses are generally due to two causes most of the time, even with seasoned shooters. One is the subconscious loss of trigger control. A shooter can believe they have contol over the trigger sqezze but in fact have lost concentration and do not realize they are jerking the trigger. The other, often not even considered, is very common when shooting targets that are not "paper", is sight picture. Wether shooting an egg or a mule deer, the tendency is to be looking at the target instead of the crosshairs. You want to see the egg break or the deer fall. Easy to do because the sight picture appears to be in a two dimensional plane. Just like shooting a pistol, if you don't place total concentration on the crosshairs, the shot will off. It's a lot more obvious with a pistol though. I have seen this on numerous occasions. If a shooter is missing the mark with an accurate rifle and you instruct him to focus on the crosshairs, they start hitting. Also have seen this when a shooter is getting .5-1 MOA groups on paper and someone else with the same rifle gets cosistant .25 MOA groups. It is also easy to subconsciousy loose concentration on this technique.
Good points. "Aim Small Miss Small".

You aren't aiming at the egg. You aim for the yolk.

You aren't aiming at the deer. You are aim for it's heart or spine.

You aren't aiming at the target. You aim for the center of the bull.
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  #14  
Old 11-16-2011, 10:36 PM
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Re: Trigger timing, training, practice

Thanks for starting a good thread Wild Rose. Using the laser as you described is a great way to get visual feedback on your trigger control.

My Daughter is becoming a rather serious small bore and air rifle competitor, as a result I recently discovered (and purchased) a great training tool. It is called a SCATT system. Much like your laser idea, an invisible beam laser is mounted on your gun or even bow. An aiming device is placed downrange, both are connected to an interface module that connects to a PC. As you aim, the computer draws a trace of your barrel movement on the screen. When you (dry) fire the device picks up the "click" and fires a dot on the computer screen. The trace changes colors in the last few tenths of a second before the shot and after the shot for follow through. The trace for each "shot" is stored in the computer for analysis. If you have the least little bit of a flinch or are twisting or otherwise moving the rifle during your trigger it will show up on the screen.

These systems are not cheap at around $1400 but they are an awesome analysis tool. You can dry fire while looking through the scope and think you are rock steady. This device will tell a far different story. We all think we are holding steady, WRONG, and this device will prove it. As the old saying goes, you can't fix what you don't know....

You can actually do live fire with the system as well by "aiming" the laser at a different place than your actual point of aim. This will allow you to see if you are tensing up or flinching during live fire when you might not during dry fire.

I will do a full write up on this system soon, but anyone interested can just google SCATT shooter training systems.
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