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'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

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Unread 06-26-2003, 04:22 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 328
\'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

.. Man, this is a pain in the arse but here goes..
.. In recent history I purchased a "custom" Winchester rifle from a moderator on this board.. Things I've expereinced with this rifle have gone beyond "mistakes" or "oversights" and are approaching pure negligence.. I have been put at serious risk of injury over it.. Please click the link below for the story from my perspective..

.. This is not a personal attack against anyone.. I just wanna know what the heck is the real deal, if that's possible anymore.. I'm somewhat sure it's gonna boil down to a "buyer beware" thing.. And you can bet yer butt MY attitude has changed over it..!! If nothing else this kindof thing makes us all look pretty bad..

..If you would like to respond personally please email me..
.. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] JiNC

...Winchester Story...
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Unread 06-26-2003, 05:08 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Schofield, WI.
Posts: 323
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Damn Jake, Me thinks you didn't get a square deal for sure, I for one will never buy a gun without seeing it first and doing a thorough inspection first, there's just too many things wrong with this rifle to make it right, trigger, muzzle brake that doesn't allow a bullet to get through cleanly due to a burr. When I sell my guns I make sure they are in perfect working order, if not, the buyer comes looking for me and I got some splaining to do, I'm sure this taught you a good lesson Jake, and you'll be extra cautious next time, if there is one. BUYER BEWARE! Jay
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Unread 06-26-2003, 06:36 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

I really hate that you feel like you got a raw deal. I told you when you bought the rifle I had only owned it for less than a month and and had fired less than 30 rounds thru it, the first ten being "break-in" rounds for the new throat and chamber.
Nothing about my reply to you was "Clintonesque" as I told you straight out that I didn't adjust the trigger and didn't have any problems with it. I thought it was a little heavy for a "competition rifle". But I didn't mess with it. If you are calling me a liar, just come out and say it. I've dealt with several people on this board and I'm sure they will vouch for my integrity.
As far as the brake goes, I'm wondering what you did to it. The gun shot around one half MOA in the few groups I shot with it.
You got the rifle just as it was when I got it. I didn't bed the rifle, didn't adjust the trigger, or anything else for that matter. I was straight with you when you asked questions then, as I am now. But I don't appreciate you calling my integrity into question.
As far as I am concerned, this matter is closed. If you want to continue this tirade, do it on someone else's time. I am going to ask Len to delete this entire thread as it does not fit within the original rules set forth for ALL board members.
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Unread 06-26-2003, 06:59 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

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Unread 06-26-2003, 07:00 PM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Northwest MN
Posts: 76
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

I don't beleive deleting the post so soon would...solve the issue at hand. Also, it makes certain individuals look....bad, if the topic is just shut down. Truth typically comes out in due time, whatever it may be, but if a person feels they have something to say regarding a item/s they purchased, they should--within reason--be aloud to express such <those who have purchased things that were not up to par will find the wisdom in such an outlook, as will those who have purchased things they have been pleased with.> Things are still to murky to make an accurate assessment as of yet, but I think those on this board, including Chris himself, should be allowed to follow this little venture, and see where it leads us.
The Zebra
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Unread 06-26-2003, 07:02 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 189
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..


I really feel bad for you. My recent custom rifle purchase has been quite satisfactory - it helped me immensely to watch the thing go together, and although I'm no machinist, I saw the attention to detail that went into it. I can only imagine how bad you feel...

Although I'm no bedding expert either, it doesn't take one to tell that the bedding job on that rifle looks more like the expanding foam I use to seal the drafty spaces under my garage wall than a high quality bench rest bedding job.

And that brake thing - WOW!

Well, the good news is that it's just a bunch of steel and fiberglass and a good gunsmith could fix it up in a hurry. Email me if you need a recommendation...
STL. Principal Consultant and Managing Partner - Association of Bifurcated Tangential Ballistic Apologists, LLP.
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Unread 06-26-2003, 07:50 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 328
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Hey Chris.. I'm not calling anyone anything.. I just stated the facts as I see them in the most factual way I know how.. I didn't question anyone's integrity.. I just want to know what the real deal is with this setup.. I honestly believe that you did just pass it on.. And maybe it did get some good groups when you had it.. Heck, I even gto a couple of decent groups from it.. But I don't see how with this brake like this.. I know I have a pretty good grip but probably not enough to mangle the ID of a muzzle brake that's removed and replaced hand tight everytime the rifle is cleaned.. I know a little about metal and what I removed from the clearance hole in the brake was a burr from machining the ports..
.. For the record.. Here's a cut&paste of the two emails I got when I asked about the trigger..

CJ= "I'll have to defer to DC to answer this one--I didn't touch the trigger adjustments, but I didn't have any trouble with it, either... The Jewell is the way to go for a light adjustment on a Winny, anyway... Good Luck--CJ.."

DC="Jake I never had a problem with the trigger on that rifle. My wife shot the gun in the 1000 yard matches and if it would have had a problem, I would have changed it. I think Chris had done some honing work on it after I sent it to him but, I'm not sure. I know he said he did something to it. Ask him.Again, there was NEVER a problem with it when I had it. Later DC"
.. Nothing incriminating but by anyone but somethin' is awry..
.. It didn't do it all the time so maybe it didn't when you used it.. That's a definite possibility.. All I want is the truth..

Heck, I really actually like the rifle.. Outside of the descrepancies the fit and finish are nice.. (I still don't know 'bout that bedding, tho'.. But that, as I said before, could be my own ignorance..) The chamber looked nice in the borescope.. Somewhere down the line tho', something has been done with unsafe results.. Hopefully these problems can be corrected by a competant gunsmith.. But it would help greatly if I knew what else may need to be done..
..Sorry you took such offense at my questioning the past of this rifle.. No offense was meant.. If anyone should be offended it would be the individual(s) who could well have had a permanent case of Winchester LA bolt thru the head.. (If I'm not mistaken, there are at least two of us on this list, maybe three or four.!!)
..As far as I can tell, this board doesn't really get a lot of "irregular" traffic.. Let's just settle this "amongst us chickens".. d:^) JiNC
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