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Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

 
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2009, 06:50 PM
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Re: Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

I currently use 200 sierra matchkings with Reloader 17. This works well and I had a very good load with the same bullet and H1000. I have am going to revisit the 208 Hornady A-Max to see if I can get it to settle in with Reloader 17 and H1000. I did not have those powders when I was doing my initial load build ups. I'm hoping they will work with the new powder selections. I use Federal 210 primers.

As far as components, your rifle should shoot what ever you want it to. You will just have to work with loading for it to figure it out what it likes. Loads people suggest may or may not work in your rifle. I have found that most loads suggested to me produce to much pressure. I have a tight bore, so my loads have to be loaded a little milder.

My rifle is a rechambered Savage Mod 12 Low Profile. I use a Nikon Buckmaster target dot 6-18X40 with side focus. It is a nice set up and shoots well when I do my part in pulling the trigger and loading. I would really like to rebarrel it with a custom barrel. I am settling on a Lilja 3 groove in an 1:11 twist. Just need to save up the funds.

Tank
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Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

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arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!

Last edited by liltank; 11-09-2009 at 11:05 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2009, 09:52 PM
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Re: Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

Guys, thanks for the replies and the help. This has given me a few more ideas while I wait for my reloading kit. I contacted Berger today, but no one was available to answer questions about the powder recommended.

My 30-06 setup is, Ruger M77 Mark II, Simmons 2x10 with a 1:10 twist. I read up on some of the Reloader 17 stuff and according to their tables a 150gr should shoot faster than the competition's powder...from your experience, is this really the case? I'm considering buying a 1lb bottle of the Reloader 17 and a 1lb bottle of the hodgon 4350 and just start my trial and error testing period. I'd like to talk with Berger before I buy...and I wanted to see what this forum had to say about the two powders in this setup...naturally, I'd go with the powder that will push my bullet faster ....or at least that's my thinking...what r your thoughts?
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2009, 10:50 PM
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Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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Re: Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronedog View Post
Guys, thanks for the replies and the help. This has given me a few more ideas while I wait for my reloading kit. I contacted Berger today, but no one was available to answer questions about the powder recommended.

My 30-06 setup is, Ruger M77 Mark II, Simmons 2x10 with a 1:10 twist. I read up on some of the Reloader 17 stuff and according to their tables a 150gr should shoot faster than the competition's powder...from your experience, is this really the case? I'm considering buying a 1lb bottle of the Reloader 17 and a 1lb bottle of the hodgon 4350 and just start my trial and error testing period. I'd like to talk with Berger before I buy...and I wanted to see what this forum had to say about the two powders in this setup...naturally, I'd go with the powder that will push my bullet faster ....or at least that's my thinking...what r your thoughts?
I started using RL17 in my 300 WSM. I was using H4350 and RL17 got me 200 fps more vleocity. Got a 25-06 (same as a 30-06 case) this summer and tried Retumbo, H1000 and RL17. Retumbo was the fastest powder listed by Nosler for 110 gr bulltes in the 25-06. RL17 beat it by 200 fps. 3500 fps vs 3300 fps and it shot very well. I even tried it with 180 E-Tips in the 300 RUM which is not what it was designed for. It matched Retumbo and H1000 at about 3400 fps and 86 gr of charge. I went with Retumbo because it came close to filling the case at 97.5 gr. RL17 will be my first choice in just about any cartridge unless it doesn't shoot well in that rifle or proves to be temp sensitive.

Mark
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  #11  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:20 AM
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Re: Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

Thanks for the info MontanaRifleman. For a newbie like myself, what determines if a rifle shoots well with a certain powder? At 100 yards, all things being equal, how tight should the groupings be? 1/2" diameter or less? In other words, what indications should I look for to determine if I should either switch powder, or change bullet grain, or type of bullet? And what do you mean "proves to be temp sensative"? Do you mean the gun or the powder? I usually hunt in temps around 45-65 degrees, but will go on an occasional hunt down in the teens.
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  #12  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:38 AM
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Re: Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronedog View Post
Thanks for the info MontanaRifleman. For a newbie like myself, what determines if a rifle shoots well with a certain powder? At 100 yards, all things being equal, how tight should the groupings be? 1/2" diameter or less? In other words, what indications should I look for to determine if I should either switch powder, or change bullet grain, or type of bullet? And what do you mean "proves to be temp sensative"? Do you mean the gun or the powder? I usually hunt in temps around 45-65 degrees, but will go on an occasional hunt down in the teens.

When I am testing powders I look for a few things. Case capacity, velocity, accuracy, and temperature sensitivity. These all being equal would in essence stop the need for any other powder manufacturer, but they are not equal.

One powder may provide the best accuracy and case capacity, but not the velocity that you are looking for and temperatures might play with its ability to maintain accuracy. For example this powder (powder A) provides the best accuracy and case capacity in 40-60 degree weather. However when said powder is used at temps between 75-90 degrees (summer varmiting temps), pressure signs develop and accuracy falls off. In the reverse at temps from -10 to 20 degrees, pressures are reduced to much and again accuracy falls off because your velocities are slower. This is a theoretical powder, but it happens.

You want a powder that will fill the casing to a point that it is either just lightly compressed or compressed by the bullet. This is the best case scenario because it promotes consistent powder burn. This will also allow your bullet velocities to have as little deviation in speed as possible. You want a powder that will be consistent in the temperature ranges that you plan on hunting.

Case and point, I use RL17; at temps 40 to 60 degrees I need to increase my powder load. At temperatures of 68 to 80 I can load 61.5 grains under a 200grain matchking and expect a velocity of 2950 and good accuracy with a deviation in speed of 20fps average (slowest to fastest shot). The temperatures have cooled down and now my groups have opened up to an inch or so. Now I have to rework the load because my speed has dropped off, my pressures are lower, and my extreme spread in speed is now between 80 and 85 fps. This won't work for trying to hit something at long range. I want to stick with this powder because it is capable of giving me the speeds that I desire and have found that it will shoot accurately and consistently out of my rifle.

Scenario two is like this. With H1000 I can hold a very tight group and my case capacity is where I would like it to be, but it shoots 150fps slower than I would like. It gives me an extreme spread of about 8 fps. The RL17 is not giving me the case capacity that I want or the desired extreme spread, but it is still working well enough for me to give me something to work with. I know that because of the cooler temps I can increase my powder charge and gain my speed back as well. Pressure will be okay as long as I stay within my temperature ranges that I am adjusting for. It is very important to keep records of what you load and all the above information so that you can repeat the performance that you want. Another tip: if you find a powder that works for your rifle, try and buy as much as you can afford in the same lot number. Different lot numbers can produce different results even though it is the same powder.

Hope this answers your question.

Tank
__________________
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!

Last edited by liltank; 11-09-2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason: More info
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:59 AM
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Re: Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

Ahha, I had never even considered something like that. LilTank, thanks.

In my mind I was going to simply figure out what my gun likes, then go make a bunch of rounds and store them for the future, but it sounds like getting my gun shooting right is relative to the conditions and changes..., I live in the Desert/Mountains and one season I might be hunting in 85 degree weather in the afternoon, and the next week it drops to below freezing, which is what happened this year. Or one day I might hunt in the highcountry of the mountain, then dropdown to the mesquite desert towards the latter part of the hunt.

So, do good consistent shooters likely have multiple boxes set up for various conditions, or do most of them do their loads say a couple of weeks before they want to go shoot, so the temps are relatively stable to when they made the rounds? In other words, am I better off not stockpiling for a given situation of hunting and rather just load prior to a hunt/shooting session? How long can I store a load without any problems? A friend of mine shot some of his dads 30-06 shells that were 25 yrs old, this year. I didn't dare shoot them when he asked, his groups were all over the place, is it an old load, or do you think it was more a problem of "inconsistent load/powder" back 25 yrs ago?
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2009, 11:11 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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Re: Some guidance so I don't blow myself up...

ronedog,

Tank summed it up pretty well. I'll add that the two biggest things in LR shooting besides the obvious accuracy/consistancy, are BC and velocity. That's what gets you farther down range with more enrgy/momentum and bucks wind. But like Tank mentioned, sometimes there are tradeoffs. His report on RL17's temp sensitivity has me a little concerned. We get some extreme swings in temps here in MT which would have an effect on the bullet's performance at longer ranges. RL 22 and 25 usually produce good velocities but they are very temp sensitive. The Hodgdon Etreme powders are less temp sensitive.

If you're looking for 1K shooting, you should be striving for sub .5 MOA accuracy. I am finding that my MOA accuracy gets slightly better at 300 and 400 yds than 100yds. You should be testing your accuracy at 300 yds and farther because bullets sometimes take a little while to "go to sleep" which referes to their pitch and yaw. You should be looking for 1" - 1 1/2" groups @ 300 yds and 1 1/2" - 2" groups @ 400 yds.

Mark
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