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So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

 
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:30 AM
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Re: So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

Awesome video, rifle, and shooting!

Sometimes it's simply the nut behind the trigger, this is one of my all time favorite ...

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  #16  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:45 AM
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Re: So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcairflr View Post
All I see is a hillside and a rock of an unknown size and bullet rounds hitting somewhere in the vicinity of the rock. There is nothing measurable here so I have no idea if you have a 1 moa group or a 5 moa group.

Set up a target and give us some actual measurements. IMO this video means nothing other than your rounds are hitting in the same general area, which any rifle could do.
This is simply an accuracy test for a freshly built customers rifle. The range is a measured 1070 yards. The small white rock slightly down and to the left of the impact sight is roughly 1/4 moa measured using the NR-R1 reticle on a NF scope that was on a 280 AI rifle I tested just before testing this 375 AX.

My intention is not to hit the target, its simply to get bullets down range close to a known sized target so that I can get it on video, review on a big screen TV and see if there are any issues with the rifles accuracy. Again, I was not trying to hit that target. I know its size, I know its range and as such, I can determine if there are any accuracy issues with the rifle before it ships to the customer.

I would feel no more confident had I set up my 20" round gong and punched the same 3/4 moa or slightly larger group on steel except I would had added at least an hour to my shooting session times.

This method allows me to get bullets in the air at long range to test rifles. Again, these are PRE break in groups, just checking for any potential vertical stringing, or horizontal stringing that would indicate a problem with something on the rifle.

If my test procedure is not up to your standards, I ....... Well, I certainly DO NOT apologize. Been doing this well over 10 years with over 700 rifles out the door. In my early days, I used to shoot 100 yard groups on paper to prove rifles and while every rifle shipped proved its 1/2 moa accuracy potential shooting on paper at 100 yards, I had more (not many) issues with rifles needing more lengthy load development when the customers got the rifles. So, I decided to switch to testing at long range and because of the volume of rifles I test every year, this method works perfectly well for me and most customers use the loads I test their rifles with at long range.

Again, if this does not meet your standards, such is life, maybe you need to go back to the HIDE and look for your 5 shot groups on paper!!!

Thanks for your input though.
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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  #17  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:50 AM
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Re: So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Well the video was very clear to me. The shots looked well under MOA from the video and if Kirby said it was half MOA or less than that's what it was.

Beautiful rifle Kirby, and great shooting! What twist is the bore and what's the magazine length?
Most of the shots were 1/2 moa or less but with the shot that hit the target I will admit that the group size was slightly over 3/4 moa in size so likely 8-9" which in my opinion is plenty good from a 10 lb rifle shooting a STOPPING bullet with a 6x non adjustable scope.

The twist on that rifle is a 1-10 from Lilja. The DM system is a Seekins with a 3.900" internal mag box length. Interestingly enough, the throat on my 375 AX reamer is setup to seat the 350 gr SMK to the base of the case neck for an OAL of 3.860". These 350 gr TSX have to be seated very deeply and have a very blunt ogive so their OAL is only 3.570"!!!

In comparision, the 350 gr SMK loaded with Magpro averages just under 2950 fps out of this 26" barrel length. Pretty impressive but that's not the bullet the customer wanted to test in this rifle so its not the bullet I shot at long range.

Thanks for your kind words.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:59 AM
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Re: So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
Yes I agree . This proves or highlights nothing in my view.
Although I do agree that high quality glass is better than lower quality but higher power in most cases and to a point .
Eye sight has a lot to do with it also , with 20 20 vision and a top quality scope you can see better than some other people who have less than perfect vision and no so high quality scopes.
I think the needs of personal choice is a whole lot more complicated than what one single person may be happy with.
I know a young guy that can see my 30 cal holes in the target at 200 meters with the naked eye.
I can't see them at 50 meters . There is no way we are going to be happy with the same scope power .
I think some of you guys are missing my point. I am not saying that I would RECOMMEND this scope setup for 1070 yard shooting. Only showing that you CAN make accurate shots at long range with lower powered magnificantion. I have made this point many times in the past. In 2007, I made a killing shot on a rockchuck at a measured 2370 yards that won the longest shot of the year award from the Varmint Hunters Association. That shot was made with a 3-15x NF NXS scope and many said that would be impossible to make that shot with that power scope which is simply laughable. As are some of the comments on this post.

I suppose I could have targets a 3 moa rifle at this range, hit it in the middle every shot and made everyone happy with the same 3/4 class group size but again, that was not my intention. I shoot at very small targets, generally less then 1/2 moa. In fact, had this rifle been set up in its normal configuration, it would have had a 3-15x NF or 5.5-22x NF and I would have been targeting the very small round white rock that was low and left of the impact sight. This target was right at 1/4 moa in size measured off the NP-R1 reticle on the 5.5-22x NF mounted on a 280 AI I tested right before I tested this 375 AX.

Apparently none of you guys discrediting this video have never used a reticle to measure anything or feel its not an accurate method to get accurate size measurements at long range without actually putting a set of calipers on the target to prove its size.....

To each their own, this system works, works extremely well for testing 700 plus rifles that have shipped out of the shop. Works for me, if it does not make you guys happy, well...... life will go on.

Thanks for your input
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:16 AM
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Re: So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Most of the shots were 1/2 moa or less but with the shot that hit the target I will admit that the group size was slightly over 3/4 moa in size so likely 8-9" which in my opinion is plenty good from a 10 lb rifle shooting a STOPPING bullet with a 6x non adjustable scope.

The twist on that rifle is a 1-10 from Lilja. The DM system is a Seekins with a 3.900" internal mag box length. Interestingly enough, the throat on my 375 AX reamer is setup to seat the 350 gr SMK to the base of the case neck for an OAL of 3.860". These 350 gr TSX have to be seated very deeply and have a very blunt ogive so their OAL is only 3.570"!!!

In comparision, the 350 gr SMK loaded with Magpro averages just under 2950 fps out of this 26" barrel length. Pretty impressive but that's not the bullet the customer wanted to test in this rifle so its not the bullet I shot at long range.

Thanks for your kind words.
You are very welcome! The reason I asked about the twist and mag is I was looking at the CEB .375 350's. They require an 11" twist or better and have a claimed BC of .88-.9 I'm thinking they would do a good job on the buff as well. But they have 1.4" of nose projection which I think would make them a single shot option with that mag box and not practical for buff hunting. A great option for long range deer and elk though.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-b...n&key=MTH_L350

Another interesting bullet would be the GSC FN type bullet. That would probably be my choice for buff (and other dangerous game) inside 100 yds.

GS CUSTOM BULLETS - FN Solids, the ultimate dangerous game bullet.

Once again, a fine looking and shooting rifle! Your customer should be tickled.
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:25 AM
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Re: So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

I got my money on the Montanans, esp. the gunbuilder, of course I'm bias ... but I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Sometimes you just can satisfy all the peeps and of course they are entitled to ...


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  #21  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:36 AM
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Re: So you think you need high BC and magnificantion for long range shooting....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 25 Otter View Post
Got it. Cool video. I won't quibble over the finer points,but I will say this. I don't want him shooting at me at 1,070! 6X scope or not.
It don't get no simpler than that!
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