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Shot Groups

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  #1  
Unread 08-21-2009, 09:23 PM
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Shot Groups

So when determining the OA group size for a long range hunting capability... what measurement do you consider for your load development? Example: I shot a group that measured 1.041 out side to out side, but if you subtract .308 for bullet size that leaves a group of .733 center to center. Also, I have been getting a lot of groups with two cutting the same whole and flier of 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch from the two touching. Should I consider these loads as good because it is possibly me, or do I dump the load and try something else? For development I generally shoot 3 shot groups unless I find something I really like and then move to a 5 shot group. Trying to conserve on powder and bullets.

Just as a back up to my abilities, I have cut 5 shot groups in the .25 MOA range and can consistently hold .75 MOA or less. Can a loose primer pocket in a load batch of brass with tight primer pockets be my fliers? What I mean by loose, is they go in real easy, but don't fall out even when tapped on something hard.

Well hope this is enough info for an assessment of my situation.

Thanks in advance,
Tank
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  •   #2  
    Unread 08-21-2009, 10:41 PM
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    Re: Shot Groups

    I consider 100yard groups just a starting point and a measure of SDs and velocities.

    Group size will normally increase as distance increases. Example : A 1" group at 100 yards
    will almost all ways be 10"+ at 1000 yards and shooter ability is magnified at longer distance.

    For Long range hunting the size of the game and distance to be hunted has a lot to do with
    the needed group size.

    Most set there max group size @ 1/2 MOA at any distance under perfect conditions and shooting
    skills.

    Obviously you want it to be better if possible and custom rifles are capable of 1/4 MOA if tuned
    and loaded correctly.

    I have to rely on a great shooting rifle for long shots because it gives me confidence and I try
    not to shame myself because I know that if I do my part it will do it's.

    One good group does not make a long rang rifle But a consistent one does.

    So the best group you can shoot consistently is what you have to live with and will limit the
    distance you should shoot.

    I normally use 300 yards as a good judge of whether I can use it for long range load
    development .If it does well then I increase the distance to it's limits and decide if
    this is the load to use for the type of hunting I will be using the rifle for.

    I hope this will help.

    J E CUSTOM
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      #3  
    Unread 08-22-2009, 07:00 AM
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    Re: Shot Groups

    Thanks JE, but what about my flier and the other questions stated?

    Tank
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    Matthew 7:13-14
    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

    Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

    arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
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      #4  
    Unread 08-22-2009, 09:26 AM
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    Re: Shot Groups

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by liltank View Post
    Thanks JE, but what about my flier and the other questions stated?

    Tank

    Primer pockets should be snug so the don't leak @ firing. They will seal but any movement can effect your load quality.

    I would do the test this way. First fire a round and push a patch through the barrel (Dry)
    Then repeat the process in a short time so the barrel begins to warm up. Have a target on
    the bench with you and plot each shot as you fire them and number them.

    After 4 or 5 rounds you should see which ones are the fliers. The use of a chrony is
    recommended for the test.

    With the target and the chronograph this is what you should find = If the first few shots
    group well and the 3,4 or 5Th shot is a flier Then it is probably the stock to barreled action
    fit. Bedding, action screw torque, tip pressure ,ETC.

    If the fliers are random the chronograph will help determine if it is a load problem with the
    load combination.

    And in my case sometimes I just have a bad day but this process tells me when even if I
    don't recognize it at first.

    I hope this helps because it can be frustrating.

    J E CUSTOM
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      #5  
    Unread 08-22-2009, 09:39 AM
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    Re: Shot Groups

    liltank,

    Play with your seating depth, some times .005 or .010 longer or shorter can bring those fliers back to the rest of the group.

    Chris
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      #6  
    Unread 08-22-2009, 10:05 AM
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    Re: Shot Groups

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winmagman View Post
    liltank,

    Play with your seating depth, some times .005 or .010 longer or shorter can bring those fliers back to the rest of the group.

    Chris

    Yeah, that is my next line of thought. I have started to play with the depth a little. That is where I have found some accuracy. I am going to have to lengthen them out again to see if the lands are the preferred setting again. Thanks for the input.

    Tank
    __________________
    Matthew 7:13-14
    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

    Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

    arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
    Reply With Quote
      #7  
    Unread 08-22-2009, 01:46 PM
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    Join Date: Nov 2008
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    Re: Shot Groups

    Well I think I fixed the problem. I dropped a full grain and lengthened my COL (Thanks winmagman for the reminder). What I did find, is that my Savage doesn't like a clean bore. The dirtier it got the faster it shot and the grouping stayed tight. The first shot was my comparator shot. The second after cleaning the barrel went about .25" high and .75" to the right. I decided to keep it dirty for the 3rd and 4th shot. They stacked up in the first shot and my speed increased by 50fps. Does this make sense?

    Tank
    __________________
    Matthew 7:13-14
    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

    Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

    arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
    Reply With Quote
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