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Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

 
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2006, 03:02 PM
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Re: Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

Big Bore, Did not mean to enflame your pro wolf feelings. Just wanted to put a little perspective on your comments. I am refering to the Northern Yellowstone Elk herd, not beavers, not moose or elk in the little belts. As for the peer review, those are commonly quoted numbers from recent articles from the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the same FWP biologists that are claming such success with the re-introduction. And yes, the re-intoduction has been a resounding success if more wolves are the sole criteria. As for elk numbers 300 and 500 years ago, I cannot give that info, and I suspect neither can you. As for the the original head of the food chain in this area, I'm afraid the good ole Grizzly was there rather than the wolf. Finally, and this is my last word on the subject, your attack on my beliefs , ie. my signature line, proves that it is right on.
Have a good day, and God Bless.
Jim
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  #30  
Old 09-06-2006, 06:41 PM
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Re: Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

Somwhow I had a feeling this would lead to the ever heated debate about wolves. I understand that as humans increase and wish to take more game, other competetors such as wolves become less liked.

I have always had a soft spot for wolves and I struggled for a day and a half as to whether or not I was going to go harvest these magnificent animals.

My theory is all things in balance. Because the lower 48 protects wolves, they are hardley kept in balance, hence everyones hatred for them. I also understand that in Idaho a much smaller wolf was native, perhaps the gray wolf and when they reintroduced them, they brought the timber wolf which is much larger than the original. Bottom line: elk herds and other species herds will suffer. It was flat wrong to introduce a sub species that never existed in that region.

As for Alaska, we have so many wolves that we dont know what to do with them and as more and more hunters move in, something has got to give. As the top of the food chain, that would be mankind and it is our right to manage game accordingly. Unfourtunatly, some organizations dont always think of the right way to go about it. As for me, I will do my part to help "manage" the areas I like to hunt by harvesting predators (with-in the limits of the law) and also by sharing vital information with the game department so they can make the right choices, as well as not over harvesting game even if the law states I can have more. I like to be able to return year after year and have a good experiance instead of 1 or 2. I have had several friends tell me that they would have shot all 7 of them and left them lay. This is wrong due to the fact that the legal limit is 5 and you are required to salvage the hide(s). Like I said, all things in balance. I can tolerate wolves as well as other hunters in my areas as long as it is all balanced.
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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  #31  
Old 09-06-2006, 06:50 PM
 
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Re: Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

Excellent Scientific America article on the Wolf reintroduction I highly recommend everyone read the outstanding article.

[ QUOTE ]
... And yes, the reintroduction has been a resounding success if more wolves are the sole criteria.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wolf count has never been the primary criteria for success. The goal has always been to stabilize the decay of the park and return the area to it's pre-extinction, god designed ecological balance. Wolf count is a secondary issue. Reducing the complex ecosystem to a trivial count of elk/wolves shows a complete misunderstanding. It's tantamount to the spotted owl issue. Spotted owls are only an indicator of an incredibly complex ecosystem destroyed by deforestation and tree farming.

[ QUOTE ]
... I am refering to the Northern Yellowstone Elk herd, not beavers, not moose or elk in the little belts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you willing to sacrifice beavers, song birds, and other Forrest diversity for the convenience of docile, overpopulated elk hunting?

[ QUOTE ]
As for elk numbers 300 and 500 years ago, I cannot give that info, and I suspect neither can you.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'll see if I can dig them up. It's simple pre-extinction biology.
[ QUOTE ]

As for the the original head of the food chain in this area, I'm afraid the good ole Grizzly was there rather than the wolf.


[/ QUOTE ]
That is incorrect. The wolf has been the top predator in the park for the last several hundred thousand years or more. Compared to wolves, Grizzlies are insignificant predators. Top predator is a well defined biological concept not based on who would win a fight in a ring. The subtitle of the SciAm article states <font color="red"> Bringing the top predator back to Yellowstone has triggered a cascade of unanticipated changes in the park's ecosystem </font>
[ QUOTE ]


Finally, and this is my last word on the subject, your attack on my beliefs , ie. my signature line, proves that it is right on.
Have a good day, and God Bless.
Jim


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry if I offended your beliefs; that was not my intention. But if you go quoting the bible and god, it seems to me you're other statements should be consistent. How can you believe man can design a superior ecosystem to the one your god designed?

I hope we get a surplus of wolves (like parts of Alaska now have) so we can go wolf hunting.
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  #32  
Old 09-07-2006, 08:15 AM
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Re: Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

meichele, I apologize sir for the unnecessary hijacking of your thread. Congratulations on a successful hunt. I agree completely with your last post. I envy your ability to help control your wolf population. Again, my apologies!
God Bless,
Jim
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  #33  
Old 09-07-2006, 08:17 AM
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Re: Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

A good article to be sure, but as it states not definitive. I will not debate this here any longer. If you wish more discussion feel free to open a new thread somewhere else. I will participate.
God Bless,
Jim
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  #34  
Old 09-07-2006, 08:57 AM
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Re: Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

No problem MTX, I just wanted all to know that I am niether pro wolf or anti wolf. I am right in the middle and understand both sides. I do feel blessed to be able to have so many opprotunities up here being able to hunt alot and harvest game that you cant get anywhere else! I appreciate reading about how every one elses view of wolves and wolf hunting.

Regards!
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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  #35  
Old 09-07-2006, 12:32 PM
 
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Re: Sheep hunt turned into wolf hunt. Success photo included.

Great Post Michael. I should have spun off another thread on the wolf. I'm guessing most of us share your philosophy ( I will do my part to help "manage" the areas I like to hunt by harvesting predators (with-in the limits of the law) ... not over harvesting game even if the law states I can have more. I like to be able to return year after year and have a good experiance instead of 1 or 2. I have had several friends tell me that they would have shot all 7 of them and left them lay. This is wrong due to the fact that the legal limit is 5 and you are required to salvage the hide(s).
I don't see how any rational person could argue with that. My only compliant is YOU DIDN'T GET a PIC of ALL THREE. When you get a chance, post of pic of all three hides.

The YNP packs continues to split, grow and force other packs to new areas. I'm hoping in 10 years we will be able to draw wolf tags in Montana &amp; ID.

I also hope your post isn't perverted by <font color="green"> Rain Barrel Liberals </font>, ie, this guy Michael drove down and road and shot 3 wolves and therefore accelerated global warming. I'm guessing it took considerable skill (acquiring target), stealth, wind/scent management, patience, physical effort. It's got my brother, nephews and I excited about an Alaska wolf hunt.

For those wishing the definitive article on Yellowstone after Wolves, this paper is much higher quality than the watered down SciAm article. It's written by the leaders in the field and comes from my Alumni, MSU Biology
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