Originally Posted by Broz
Scott, my reply was shortly after you posted the pic of the reticles with the dots for aim points and we were talking 800 yards. I will use some numbers here for my 300 win with 210's at 2995 fps. Which does a pretty good job on wind. So you wold be looking at about a 14 moa hold over and for 7 mph wind about 2 moa. To me that puts your dot for hold out there in "no mans land" basically trying to line up with two planes out there on a blank page. Plus in some cases or maybe even most cases you would be between subtensions. Do I misunderstand that you feel you could do well on this shot at 800 and would use it on game? I would not like the fact I didnt have any sighting point and would feel this shot was very risky. Or am I missing something here?
I think we are agreeing here. If wind is added to the equation my point was that with the OP's reticle, the PST graduated reticle, there aren't any hold points for windage once you start dropping down the main vertical stadia line so it makes that shot difficult. But I also added that there were other reticles that offer windage holds ( like the Razor reticles, the new Viper HS reticle coming out this fall, and the Premiere XR reticle to give you some examples) that would make a shot like you described very doable IMO.
Having said that, I want to clarify a couple things. I personally find my comfort zone out to about 5-600 yards with the reticle. At this distance the wind is not quite the factor and atmospheric conditions don't have enough impact on POI to worry too much about. So it really is basic shooting to that distance. For anything further I would dial in my dopes so I have an exact aiming point. At least I would dial for my elevation dope. I still hold for windage most of the time even on longer shots. If I am shooting in desert country or somewhere where there is a real consistent wind I will sometimes dial in the windage but most of the places I shoot is mountainous and has variable wind conditions with multiple wind factors that I have to deal with, ie up drafts, cirlcing winds in canyons, etc. I have just found it much easier to hold for wind when I know I may be making subtle changes a few times before I get a shot off. Also, and I think you and I have talked about this before, but I mostly shoot big game out to about a 1/2 mile or so. I know you shoot much further than this and I believe that this fact alone makes a difference in what you and I deem necessary to make a successful shot.
I know you are skeptical about this reticle concept but with practice it isn't really that big of a deal to hold between hash marks most of the time. The reticle I posted is a good example. His reticle is a 2 MOA reticle and he needed to hold for 21.5 MOA for the 800 yard shot. 21.5 MOA is 3/4 of the way between the 2 hash marks. At least for me, with the imperial system of measurements that we are used to in the US, it is very easy and intuitive for me to split things into quarters visually. Since this is what each click of the turret is accomplishing, doing this with the reticle essentially brings about the same amount of potential accuracy. Now I know that you have a specific aim point if you dial in and use the center cross hairs but when using the reticle your brain gets really good at using the surrounding stadia lines to anchor you into position when you are holding between stadia lines. I am not sure if that last comment makes sense but it really does work.