Here's a question for ya: Is that elk looking AT them or just IN their direction before he turns to walk off?. Also, notice the time delay between the "bark" and the elk hearing it.
Was there enough movement setting up for the shot both rifle and video camera, with those nifty reflective orange caps for the bull to really take notice of them? If he was looking @ them, were they too far away to be of concern to the bull? Did the bull even see them?
Would you have taken that shot from a sitting position?
Your thoughts please
Me thinks that in Idaho that 'bark' would have put the bull into high gear instead of stopping him. I'd do a whistle instead.
I would have taken that shot,or any of the others,but that is not hunting where I come from!That is great long range shooting,we do everything possible over here to get as close as the terrain permits.If that means 400-500 yds,so be it.
This type of 'hunting' doesn't come across well Down Under,don't get me wrong,I am an avid fan of long range hunting,but it seems to me that if they had of panned the camera round,you would have seen their vehicle just a 100 yds or so behind them!
The 'sit' is what we teach over here more than any other,it is almost as steady as prone,if done correctly.So yes I would have taken that shot from the 'sit'. MagnumManiac
Well im coming in real late to this topic and i aint wanting to stir the pot. i am only wanting to reinforce one thing. on the topic of watching a hit animal i firmly agree with keeping eyes on the animal until you are SURE it is down for good!
Just this last fall Bill Bailey my long time hunting buddy shot the buck of his lifetime. unfortunatly we were not setting together when he made the shot but either way he did a good job. the only problem was that once the made the 470yd shot he got back on the scope and saw the buck lift his head and then fall back down. now this shot was far back but with a 300gr bullet from his 338 edge the job was done. the problem was that he was so excited he jumped on the radio and was calling me and shortly on his way to pick me up and get the deer. problem was he didnt mark where the animal fell!!! now this occured on a small patch of land, about 40 acre radios where the animal could be but the grass was around 4ft tall. now if you have tried to find a downed deer in that kind of grass you can understand how hard it can be!! my first question to him was if he marked the animal with a land mark in line with his stand, no he was to excited. I really cant blame him cause a near 170" deer can do that to ya but after 30min of looking for the buck he was cussing the mistake. anyway we found the buck and all was good.
bottom line is though, watch the animal, make sure its down, and figure out a easy way to find it. as far as how this translates to public broadcasted video i dont know or really care/
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I thought we already covered making accusations without any fact to back them up. who the hell knows what's behind them:mad: Without asking, I wouldn't take away from a man's hunt by throwing out a stupid comment like that. Those guys could have packed it in 5, 6, even 10 miles for all we know. It seems since the last barrage John Burns, once again, has been chased off the site, way to go guys. maybe we can try and chase some other knowledgable member away next. Maybe I'll start insulting Kirby's wildcats and make some false statements, you know, really trash them. I won't think first, or look for factual info. or anything, just shoot my freaking mouth off, without thinking, kind of stuff:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: grow up.
P.S. no offense kirby just venting
you cant dump'em if you don't pull the trigger!
Maybe I'll start insulting Kirby's wildcats and make some false statements, you know, really trash them
No sweat, been done many times!!!! LOL
I offered an apology to John. It was sincere on my end. If he accepts it great, if not, that is on him now. I saw where I was wrong and made the point in public to claim up to it.
On the other end, if your going to do something out of the norm or offer a product that pushes things past the current accepted max limits of performance, just because of human nature you better be expecting some comments to be made.
I have taken and still take my fair share for some of the wildcats I offer which is fine, I offer solid factual numbers for their performance, offer their strengths and weaknesses and let the individual make up their minds for themselves.
I have been called a liar, a fake, a fraud and a salesman. I have also been called a great smith and great wildcat designer. Simply put, I hope John accepts my apology as it was intended for him only but felt he deserved a public apology.
As far as Shawn is concerned, I see no reason why he should apologize. He simply made a comment based on the video at hand and as soon as John stated how things happened in real time, Shawn took him for his word. No harm, no foul. I got a bit more aggressive so I posted a public apology as I felt that was needed.
Nuff said. I do not think we ran John off, just questioned a section of his videos. If I left everytime someone called me out, well, I would not be here, lets just leave it at that!!!
Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.
I just found this thread tonight after a fellow member pointed it out to me. While I surely did not read every post (nor will I) there were several points that stood out in what I did read.
First, and correct me if I'm wrong, someone was harping on someone else that a shot looked like it didn't go where it was intended on a video? Well, from killing hoards of animals from 600 yards out to 2000 yards and videotaping most of them, I have come to one conclusion: You can't always see everything from videotape. You must simply have to be there on the spot sometimes to see the correct thing. I have watched my video of my cow moose I shot this year at 982 yards probably 1000 times and still can't quite see exactly where my first bullet that hit her went even though I know from skinning it out that it went into the chest somewhere from the upper part of her back. But someone watching it might think shot missed entirely.
Second, I have been around hunting long enough to know that $hit happens sometimes no matter how well prepared and how lucky you are. That is just how it is. Eventually, even the luckiest guy has his luck run out.
Thirdly, I am in the party that believes no harm no foul. Worrying about the what-ifs after the fact is a waste of time. Partly because of the fact that if you weren't there, you weren't there and that will change the perspective almost certainly.
Fourth, an animal that is hit in the shoulder/spine can absolutely immediately tuck just it's back legs and hit butt first. The bull moose my friend shot just after I shot my cow moose did this very thing. The bullet hit it dead center high shoulder/spine and it hit butt first and then whiplashed it's nose into the dirt. It wiggled and ran upside down for a minute and then was still.
There have also been probably half a dozen elk I have shot that were punched in the shoulder and folded their back legs first. This is not surprising to me at all.
And lastly, I am guilty of letting someone else shoot my rifle to kill a long range animal when they had never shot long distance before. I know this goes against the collective but I don't apologize. It worked out every time without a loss of animal and it converted a couple non-believers into pro-long range hunters in about 1.02 seconds flight time. I knew if they did what I told them to do, my coaching and equipment would be up to the task. And besides, I wouldn't feel very good about myself if I knew I could help someone fill their tag on the last day and didn't.
While I don't agree with all of John Burn's methods (like BDC dials), he has taken a lot of flack from the general uneducated public on our behalf and it ain't easy to put up with that.
Btw, I have video of the moose that could be put on here if someone wants to see them and will put them on here for me.
If it's not far, it's boring.
Last edited by goodgrouper; 03-16-2008 at 10:28 PM.
Looks like they are ragging on his rifles now over on 24 hour campfire and some guys says they have misses and wound game. I basically dont care either way his ethics are his own, but I dont want to see LRH maligned. Maybe Mr. Burns will post there and set the record straight.
I have hunted in the same camp with Jon, and shot with him for five days in a row..We argued like cats and dogs, he took it from a newbie as my questions are almost allways phrased like well I don't know about that but what about this, I am a rather pig headed , school of hard knocks kinda guy but getting better as age increases , thank god. He handled it well and showed me many lights I was at first not willing to see..
I quite honestly feel it is his personality type that most of us clash with,,He really knows his stuff, and like me when it comes to the subjects that I eat, sleep and breathe and am considered by many as a proffesional, when criticism occurs it riles me up pretty quick, and by nature I will squelch them quickly if incorrect.
I know of few others that have witnessed or participated in as many kills as him.
Tom Brown wrote the Following in THE VISION, " When running towards a battle, certainly there will be warriors bumping into each other, but their main goal is to win the battle."