Well, I wouldn't have taken that shot from any position, but that's cause I haven't practiced enough at that range to be sure of making a good hit in the field. As for whether the elk saw them, I doubt it, But as soon as he heard that whoop he had a pretty good idea of where they were. I've had bulls come straight to me from 400+ yards from one cow call in similar country. I know bulls around here don't spook that bad from a single coyote bark, up in wolf country that may be different. Elk are color blind, so I doubt the orange matters that much from that range. An Elk can sure spot movement from that range but not color.
My opinion on this issue starts with the shadowing around the elk. to me it is an obvious shadow from the hindquarter and the position of the sun. If you look closely when you see the first spot another apears over the shoulder area. Could it be the imfamous magic bullet or could it just proof that it was shadowing. I say shadowing. I shot an elk this last season at 690 yards and when I recovered it the entrance wound was the size of my pinky finger and hardly a drop of blood was on the hide. I shot it with 180 grn. bullet with a 300 WSM. I feel it is very hard especially through the camera to say it is blood. Sure there is a spot on the animal, but on my 65 inch hi def tv it looks like a shadow moving around that area of the body.
I would also like to coment on the bull as he fell. The bull is standing straight up. you could draw a straight line from hock up to head. I can totally understand how the hind quarters would fall first. his front end is locked up. If you watch the next hunt, John kills a bull at 502 yrds. Watch the body language of the bull at impact. Shot placement is obvious on my tv screen. The bull is standing with his head stretched out in front of him. The bullet hits high shoulder and the bull falls, hind quarters first. Not as severe as the first bull but i believe it is all in the position of his head being out in front. there is no longer a line straight up from hock to head. This is obviously my opinion. John if you read this your hunts are awsome and if I ever have the oportunity to meet you it would be a great honor. It was you and your show that gave me the jumpstart into this sport I needed. my questions were answered and away I went. Thanks man greatly appriciated..
Guesse I'll reply again since my name was mentioned. Just want to make a couple points.
1. I've watched the video several times (not recently). Correct or incorrect, I was impressed Shawn would notice details like he did. The amatuer impressed by the skilled, so to speak.
2. I believe a friendly rebuttal would have ended the matter. Just 'cause a guy hasn't been on TV doesn't make him inexperienced. We've all seen ample evidence of these guys experience.
3. The video is great! Everybody says so, even those questioning things. The thread is selling videos and generating interest. I may have to go buy another, so I can watch it here at the hotel. The triple on coyotes was great stuff! I'd take the questions with a grain of salt. Surely this is pretty mild questioning.
4. Finally, Shawn and Kirby contribute tremendously to this site. Don't remember the last membership count. But, thousands of folks get sound, helpful, straightforward info from these two. This info is given freely, with no obligation to purchase thier products or services. John, I'd love it if you'd share your knowledge too.
I have all of John's videos and I purchased them knowing what they are. They are a product, sold to the public to make money, that also may have either an entertainment factor or possibly an educational factor.
As such I take everything I see with a grain of salt and find that I tend to agree with only a portion of anything in any video that I watch. However, it sounds like from what Kirby says about reviewing Shawn's video that I may finally find one that is right on the money from start to end.;)
The one thing I will say about all TV shows and almost all videos is that I do not like the way they deal with the shot and the time after the shot until the animal is confirmed to be down and dead.
Almost all tend to zoom back and away as soon as the animal is hit and like has been mentioned, sometimes you can clearly tell the animal is not dead on the spot but they have to zoom back so the "star" can do his hero shot and smile for the camera. I've seen videos and TV shows that if you look closely and pay attention you will see animals still moving in the background even though the host is saying they had a one shot kill. I can't think of the exact video but I saw one where they had walked up to the elk and were doing their bragging etc. and you could see the elk move. The guy noticed it but tried to ignore it. Sometimes their editing leaves a lot to be desired.
I guess when it comes to selling something to the public and making money off of it that those involved in making the video tend to get carried away with the editing. Too bad really because if they were as good as they lead you to believe then nothing would have to be edited out and the camera would stay on the animal. The star can get back in the camera after the animal is dead.
Seriously the video looks great and because of this thread I will probably buy a copy. No need to get bent out of shape about a couple of observations. Let's all stay on the same team as we're a huge minority as it is. I like my hunting and shooting rights and respect any type/kind of shooting as long as it isn't irresponsible and that's for sure not the case here.
Shawn Carlock made comments about the shot and here comes John to face Shawn. Shawn acts like a real gentleman (which I appreciate whether some of your care or not). John in the other hand is a bit frustrated, perhaps upset and not having the best attitude, but who would blame him? This is the Long Range Hunting website where many or perhaps most of us are hunters and John Burn being one of us we watch his videos and work just to find where we can find something to criticize the man with. That’s a horrible attitude. A man of God once said: “if you go to church to find out what the pastor says wrong, Satan will give it to you, if you go to see what God says to you God will bless you” And that’s almost what’s going on here!
This site should be the place where John should be able to visit and have a bunch of welcomes; instead he almost gets his head ripped off his shoulders alive.
Comments are made that are completely out of order like:
“The one thing I know for sure is Kirby Allen and Shawn Carlock will never be replaced by Michael Martin Murphy!”
Commenting on other products while one product is being criticized to destruction and not considering the hurt our words cause.
I disagree with my friend Kirby, 10 seconds in editing a video is a life time. Besides, if more shots were needed after the elk dropped that’s fine as long as the animal doesn’t suffer. That doesn’t have to be included in the final work to give the haters more material. Why would we give hating material to those that already hate us? And then again if it’s included so be it! We need to change our attitudes.
Bottom line is that most of us need to take a chill pill!!!!!
Great example we’re all giving!!! Long Range Hunters against Long Range Hunters. I TAKE NO SIDE!!!
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!! ---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!