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Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

 
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  #15  
Old 05-24-2006, 07:48 AM
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Re: Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

Bart B,

I do not load my 7mm Allen Magnums hot enough to open a primer pocket ever. Have yet to shoot a load in that chambering that did loosen a primer pocket using Lapua cases.

In my RUM based Allen Magnums I get at least 5 to 6 firings per case. I do not run them hard. In fact many of my customers run my Allen Magnums much harder then I do.

I would say shooting from the bench or in a varmint hunting situation(which I do not recommend with my AMs) there would be 15 seconds or so between quality aimed shots, four a minute.

Really does not matter much, I assure you if you rip five rounds off with a 7mm AM even over 10 minutes the barrel will be VERY warm.

Personally I aim for 1/2 moa grouping with my rifles. 1 moa would leave me very dissapointed in one of my rifles. In fact it would not ship to a customer with this type of accuracy.

With full tilt loads I would say the 7mm AM will last 1200 rounds if really cared for properly. If not, anywhere from 500 to 800 rounds. Again, this depends on the pressure the wildcat is loaded to but it depends just as much with how the rifle is shot in the field.

That is my point exactly, very few of the popular rounds talked about here on LRH have a 41 gr capacity such as you are referring to. Most are at least in the +60 grain capacity range and +80 gr is pretty common as well. +90 gr is still nothing to get excited about these days with the RUM rounds.

The big chamberings are not designed for rapid fire shooting. I have made this point very clear when speaking of my Allen Mags because of the limited barrel life.

They are designed to have a load developed, sighted in and offer you the ability to put a high Sectional Density, high BC bullet on target at long range on big game.

Used in any other situation they are not being used as designed.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #16  
Old 05-24-2006, 07:58 AM
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Re: Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

[ QUOTE ]
I would say shooting from the bench or in a varmint hunting situation(which I do not recommend with my AMs).....

They are designed to have a load developed, sighted in and offer you the ability to put a high Sectional Density, high BC bullet on target at long range on big game. Used in any other situation they are not being used as designed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they make fine varmint rifles!!! You just have to be very patient and not get too trigger happy. I've got close to 600 rounds down my 270 AM (almost all varmint or target shooting, but not rapid fire) and it is still shooting very well. You just can't have that kill everything that moves mentality with these fire breathers!!
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2006, 09:54 AM
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Re: Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

I was also waiting for the “Professor” to elaborate on the differences in throat erosion given the same working pressure between single base and double based powders. This is a subject that has been debated for more years than I can count but I am sure that we will get the authoritative answer when the Cause and Effect lecture begins. I have my seat and am waiting on the “Professor” to enter the room. Does anybody have some popcorn and diet coke?
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2006, 10:01 AM
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Re: Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

Bill,

You and Steve have used your rifles for alot of Varmint hunting but as you mentioned, it is more deliberate long range shooting then what would commonly be thought of as prairie dog shooting.

You two know full well what will happen if you get trigger happy with your 270 AMs and as such you use them accordingly for those "special" shots.

As the wildcats designers I have to stay pretty strick as to my recommendations for the intended use of the rounds or someone will hear me say they are some of the ultimte varmint hunting rounds and take that as meaning they can run 400 rounds down the bore every weekend.

FOr that reason I should revise my use recommendation, for any deliberate shooting use, not high volume. I will also admit, I have about the same amount of rounds through my 270 AM sporter and have used it quite a bit for chuck hunting. In this use though I will get 12 shots down range on a good morning of hunting. Much less if I do my part and shoot straight [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!!

She has scored several one shot kills on chucks at ranges from 1090 to 1250 yards but again, I must say that the Allen Magnums should only be used for deliberate shooting.

Have a good day,

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #19  
Old 05-24-2006, 10:05 AM
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Re: Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

Boss Hoss,

I personally feel there is a significant difference in throat erosion between using ball and stick powders but not so much for the flame temp. Ball powders are said to burn slightly lower but they are both hot!!

My theory is that the abrasive characteristics of stick powders increase the wear in the throat simply by frictional contact compared to the smoother flowing ball powders.

Is this fact, not sure but it sure makes sense to me and if the ball powders burn a little cooler, all the better but I do not feel this is the main advantage to using them from what I have seen in testing barrel life with my Allen Mag.

Figured I would open the box for Bart B to dive into. We will see what he has to say to this. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2006, 12:41 PM
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Re: Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

Well I would trust the “Professor” is conducting the proper due diligence as the shoe leather he keeps chewing on from keeping his foot in his mouth can’t be all that tasty!

Yes your post is spot on but you ruined my little test. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]


[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #21  
Old 05-24-2006, 02:11 PM
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Re: Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

Thank you Jim [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am not an expert or academia, nor am I stuck on this point of view. I do enjoy exploring theories, and friendly debate.

My point with the exhaust manifold was to show an analogy of sorts; Here is what was going on in my mind:

Lets say the peak flame temp is 4500 deg. (I don't know what it is, but I am sure it is around there). Do you think that a 75 deg. barrel(ambient)is going to suck away a lot more heat than a 250 deg. one(too hot to touch)? The ratio of barrel heat to flame temp is very far apart (75 to 4500 vs 250 to 4500). The steel is either hot and intact, or melting (critical temp I was refering to).

I feel that (as Fifty said) that it is the sandblast effect that errodes our lands & throats, reguardless of whether we fire one round a month, or 5-10 in a row (as long as you stay below the temps where you are actually melting steel).

I heard that some rate barrel life by the "lbs. of powder" that go through them (assuming the same operating pressures). A 308 uses a third of the powder that an AM uses, hence three times the barrel life.

BTW-Highpower shooters regularly shoot 300 mags, and the 6.5x284 (a mini 300 mag). These two rounds are fully capable for Long Range Hunting, and (their class) are probably used by most (I use a 30-338).
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