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quick advice berger hunting vs target?

 
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2013, 06:49 AM
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Location: Tucson Az
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Re: quick advice berger hunting vs target?

After reading Jeff's hunting stories the from last year I wouldn't worry about shooting the target versions on big game!

I will be hunting with a couple of target hybrids this year and have confidence they will work fine. 180 7mms and the 230 30 cal.

To quote Jeff:



Re: hunting verus target VLDs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hunt with both almost every year. I have never seen any Berger open on impact, they are designed to penetrate in 3 to 5" and then start the expansion. This is what they both do. In some cases depending on velocity and what "target bullet" we are talking, I have seen the Targets even work better. For instance the 215 Hybrid in 30 cal. We have used them extensively and every single animal had a nice .308 entrance and destroyed vitals. This was a total of 19 big game animals last season. After 500 to 600 yards the expansion was less and we got exits of the 1 1/4" size on all that exited. That included an antelope at 1285 yards. I hunted for years with the 210 Hunting VLD before trying the 215. I will not be changing back.

Jeff
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2013, 07:47 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: N. Utah
Posts: 178
Re: quick advice berger hunting vs target?

AZ,
Are you referring to the normal target vld's that have always been around or the target hybrid? To my understanding the hybrid does great. But the old school original target vld can be hit or miss on big game??. From the way ive interpreted it is the target vld and the matchking have the same story with hunting. Some people love and swear by these bullets and will always hunt with them. Some say its not ethical because the bullets are "match" lol
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2013, 12:17 PM
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Re: quick advice berger hunting vs target?

I have read here somewhere that some hunters are successful using the target VLDs for hunting big game. IIRC I also read that it ruins less meat and at least one guy preferred it. Hope a few target VLD users chime in.

From what I have read the target vs hunting whether it is a VLD or Hybrid are very similar in their designs. The target versions have thicker bearing surfaces but the noses on all styles are thinner and much the same.

I PM'ed Brian Litz several years ago regarding the differences between VLD hunting and target VLD bullets. It was nice of him to take the time to write this:

"As far as using them for hunting, I can't tell you how they'll work because we havent' tested them. I can tell you that the thick jackets of the target bullets are only ~0.003" to 0.004" thicker per side than the standard thickness (hunting) jackets. This extra thickness exists up thru the bearing surface, then tapers to the same thickness (same as standard) at the jacket mouth. In other words, the thickness of the jacket in the ogive of the target bullets is very similar to that of the standard hunting jackets. From this information, one may speculate that they will perform similar to the standard hunting jackets on impact, however, not having tested the target bullets for expansion at all, it would not be responsible for us to say how they behave. They were designed as target bullets to overcome problems with extensive and abusive target shooting. If you do any tests along these lines, we're very interested in the results."

This thread mentions the use of target VLDs for big game:
Taking animals with long range target bullets

There is some information on berger jackets and performance here. I'll admit it is a comparison of a hunting VLD and hybrid target and not a target VLD.
Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

Perhaps you could section one of the targets and a hunting VLD for your own comparisons.
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  #11  
Old 08-12-2013, 04:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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Re: quick advice berger hunting vs target?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatgerm View Post
AZ,
Are you referring to the normal target vld's that have always been around or the target hybrid? To my understanding the hybrid does great. But the old school original target vld can be hit or miss on big game??. From the way ive interpreted it is the target vld and the matchking have the same story with hunting. Some people love and swear by these bullets and will always hunt with them. Some say its not ethical because the bullets are "match" lol
Broz had great success with the 308 215 hybrids , but... I read a post by one of our other members who tried the 6.5 140 hybrids on deer and reported them to be hit or miss with several no expansion pass throughs. It might be that the larger hybrid bullets expand better because of greater mass, energy and momentum. Don't know for sure just speculating. Haven't read much about 7mm 180 hybrids terminal performance yet.
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  #12  
Old 08-14-2013, 05:33 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Central California
Posts: 16
Re: quick advice berger hunting vs target?

I shoot the 140 gr Berger VLD's through my .260, both hunting and target. I have shot them side by side at 1000 yards and the groups were indistinguishable between the two bullets.


I know Berger states the target bullets have a thicker jacket and all, BUT, here's my question/thought: If they have the same weight, same length, same BC, same shape, how could they possibly have a different thickness in jacket unless lead weighs the same as copper? My opinion is it's marketing hype... Don't get me wrong, I shoot Bergers solely in anything that goes past 300 yards and I love them. Just a question I've always had that has gone unanswered, or more accurately unexplained...
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2013, 05:57 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Central California
Posts: 16
Re: quick advice berger hunting vs target?

Okay, a bit of searching located this article...

History Of The Match Grade Berger Hunting VLD

I get it now!
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2013, 06:08 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tucson Az
Posts: 1,399
Re: quick advice berger hunting vs target?

dk260,

Thanks for the history link. It fills in a few blanks. I will still use the THICK hybrid bullets for hunting and have no worries as to their performance thanks to Broz extensive reporting.
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