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Quck shots, long range, moving target

 
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:30 PM
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Re: Quck shots, long range, moving target

Congratulations on an impressive shot!

Just curious if your tactical scope had a mil or moa based reticle? If so, and since you knew the distance pretty accurately, why not hold 5 mils for elevation and lead the target 2 mils, etc, for your loads known drop and lead requirements? If you are off on the estimate of the height of the animal, you will have compounding errors in your estimate of the amount to hold for elevation.

TKAB
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:58 PM
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Re: Quck shots, long range, moving target

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToKeepAndBear View Post
Congratulations on an impressive shot!

Just curious if your tactical scope had a mil or moa based reticle? If so, and since you knew the distance pretty accurately, why not hold 5 mils for elevation and lead the target 2 mils, etc, for your loads known drop and lead requirements? If you are off on the estimate of the height of the animal, you will have compounding errors in your estimate of the amount to hold for elevation.

TKAB
Straight cross hairs.

Since in a case like this you are using body height and length and inches and doing it all in your head as you are putting it together in just a few seconds trying to do part of it in inches and part in MOA is more than my pea brain can handle.

With a Mil or MOA graduated reticle it would be much easier, but to be honest on a moving shot like that even with those reticles I'm using the graduations just to help me more accurately do the quick math on the lead and hold rather than attemptig to do MOA or Mil calculations.

Keep in mind that a lot of our shooting on varmints like hogs and coyotes gives us a maximum of one minute and more realistically about 30 seconds from first sighting until pulling the trigger.

I this case while I knew the range almost exactly to the far end of the field I was still having to do a quick rough guess as to the range to target figuring he was about 200yds from the far end as I first saw him angling slightly south (shooting N-S) and he then turned almost due south after I got stopped while I was setting up.

Body dimensions work extremely well if you know your game and keep those figures in mind.
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:49 PM
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Re: Quck shots, long range, moving target

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
With a Mil or MOA graduated reticle it would be much easier, but to be honest on a moving shot like that even with those reticles I'm using the graduations just to help me more accurately do the quick math on the lead and hold rather than attemptig to do MOA or Mil calculations.
With a mil based first focal plane reticle, if you have a drop table made out for your load and attached to your sling, no math is necessary. You just dial or hold for that distance. The mil markings are consistent at all magnifications in a first focal plane scope, so no conversion required there if you need to hold vs dial. You still have to estimate the amount of wind and speed of the animal. But most programs allow you to enter and calculate your lead for various speeds. This is done prior to the hunt. I know that for a 3mph full value moving target I need to lead 2 mils, 5mph 3 mils, and 8mph 5 mils. This lead is pretty consistent among all distances since it is a radian. The only calculating required is determining the wind and whether the wind direction requires you to increase or decrease the amount of lead for that speed of moving target.

Wildrose, I can see the method that you describe being the best solution for a plain reticle. Just illustrating the utility of a first focal plane scope in the same situation. It can also be very quick to deploy in a hunting situation.

TKAB
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2013, 07:20 PM
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Re: Quck shots, long range, moving target

This is one of the most enjoyable technical post or article I have read in a long time. Nothing like old school shooting, very well done!!! Thanks for taking the time to post this.....it's one of those rare ones.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:12 PM
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Re: Quck shots, long range, moving target

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToKeepAndBear View Post
With a mil based first focal plane reticle, if you have a drop table made out for your load and attached to your sling, no math is necessary. You just dial or hold for that distance. The mil markings are consistent at all magnifications in a first focal plane scope, so no conversion required there if you need to hold vs dial. You still have to estimate the amount of wind and speed of the animal. But most programs allow you to enter and calculate your lead for various speeds. This is done prior to the hunt. I know that for a 3mph full value moving target I need to lead 2 mils, 5mph 3 mils, and 8mph 5 mils. This lead is pretty consistent among all distances since it is a radian. The only calculating required is determining the wind and whether the wind direction requires you to increase or decrease the amount of lead for that speed of moving target.

Wildrose, I can see the method that you describe being the best solution for a plain reticle. Just illustrating the utility of a first focal plane scope in the same situation. It can also be very quick to deploy in a hunting situation.

TKAB
Great info, but you may be "preaching to the choir" on this as WildRose is a fairly knowledgeable shooter. I think that he was more just showing what can be done with the plain jane stuff.

At one point in time I had to use a duplex, because it was what I had. still took game past 500 yards, using the reticle to range (post to hair).
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2013, 04:04 PM
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Re: Quck shots, long range, moving target

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToKeepAndBear View Post
With a mil based first focal plane reticle, if you have a drop table made out for your load and attached to your sling, no math is necessary. You just dial or hold for that distance. The mil markings are consistent at all magnifications in a first focal plane scope, so no conversion required there if you need to hold vs dial. You still have to estimate the amount of wind and speed of the animal. But most programs allow you to enter and calculate your lead for various speeds. This is done prior to the hunt. I know that for a 3mph full value moving target I need to lead 2 mils, 5mph 3 mils, and 8mph 5 mils. This lead is pretty consistent among all distances since it is a radian. The only calculating required is determining the wind and whether the wind direction requires you to increase or decrease the amount of lead for that speed of moving target.

Wildrose, I can see the method that you describe being the best solution for a plain reticle. Just illustrating the utility of a first focal plane scope in the same situation. It can also be very quick to deploy in a hunting situation.

TKAB
No question about it, just not possible with this kind of set up.

Even with that though trying to dope and dial on a quick shot with a moving target is going to leave you having to make the final adjustments in your head since the distance is continually changing along with possibly the angle should the animal change directions.

Once will still need to also work on developing the skill to observe speed, calculate lead and adjust for changes in wind corrections as the animal changes.

If you have yourself dialed in though it will certainly reduce the likelihood of compounding errors.

For those of us who have been shooting like this for decades it's really second nature to do it this way but for someone who's total experience is in doping and dialing it's really tough learn how to make these sorts of on the fly calculations and adjustments. The latter here of course is why I brought it up. This is something we all need in our box of skills because sooner or later it can make the difference in feeling confident and being able to make those shots on the fly and having to pass on that once in a lifetime shot.

Again this is where the value in predator and varmint hunting is enormous because let's face it most of us are not nearly as concerned about being sure we made that "killing shot" in those circumstances and in some case you prefer not to because you want to have them get out of the field before they expire.

Log ago when I lived down near Dublin I had a guy who paid a couple of us to go out on "night patrol" in his melon patches with .22mags asking that we'd shoot the hogs and coyotes in such a way that they could make it out of the field before they dropped because he didn't want us in the field removing them or for his pickers to have to pick their way through smelly carcasses.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2013, 02:55 PM
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Location: Yellowknife, NT Canada
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Re: Quck shots, long range, moving target

Great shot, story and discussion. Lot to be said for intuitive scopes/reticles for these types of shots. A Simple graduated reticle and target perspective allows a person to adjust follow on shots on the fly. I prefer an FFP scope as it adds a quantitative element to a person's intuitive analysis. I used both for an 850 yard moose this fall for my follow on shot. My brain can only process so much math in so much time before it demands that I rely somewhat on my instinct.
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