Originally Posted by bullridety
I think all you guys are overlooking the best evidence there is! Look at page #1 and the first post with the picture of the bullet! That evidence right there is better than anything out there! its better than any video!!! That is a picture of a Berger bullet that connected on a large animal at 626 yards! The bullet is what we are talking about here people, NOT videos. You can watch a video all you want and see the shot, but you wouldnt know exactly what that specific bullet looked like! So Broz, now your calling me a liar and saying i didnt shoot an elk with this bullet? If you want you can take a sample of the DNA off of it and check for yourself! There is no bull **** here! Im an honest open-minded person, and what for you to say this is a bullet that is tarnished and laying in the ground for a long period of time is bull ****. That bullet was pulled out from underneath the hide and stuck in my pocket and then brought into the house for your information! So what do you expect a bullet to look like after its been shot by and animal???? all nice and shiny, not tarnished, no blood, no riflings??????? If so i got a box of them down stairs i can take a picture of to make you happy. Even has all the Berger bullet information for you on the box.
Bullridety, Could you clarify something for me. The 338 bullet pictured in your first post on the left. Are you saying that is from a shot taken this fall and you dug it out of the dirt and it looked just like that already?
BullRidety and bowhuntwhities, I realize you feel that guys are busting your balls here. I get that. But you have to understand our side too. We don't know you two from Adam. And it is a fact that there are some idiots on this forum, some of which have a real ax to grind for who knows what reason. It is our job to try and assign legitimacy to threads such as this based on the evidence presented. Not always an easy job. Having said that, most guys experienced with shooting know bullets fail for one reason or another and most hunters that have used Bergers has seen non-expansion and blowup issues. That is just a fact. Not bashing Berger here at all as I have seen AB, partitions and Barnes have serious issues too.
My point is simply that I do believe there are issues here. I even think Eric acknowledges this. The key is what causes it. This thread is valuable if we can keep it on track. The issue with the closed tips is something I haven't heard of before and seems to at least make sense as to the potential cause of the rare issue of non-expanding Bergers. And Berger agrees and is doing testing because of this thread. You should be at least excited and appreciative of that point.
The reality is things do slip through the cracks at companies as busy as Berger. I would say this, if you are going to cry foul play on their part you better have some other personal experience that backs up your claims other than just "they ignored my e-mails so they are automatically scumbags trying to hide a major design flaw in attempts to con all of us out of a few more dollars. " Let's take a deep breath here and keep this beneficial for all. Guys do make legitimate mistakes. Happens to me all the time.
Back to the 338 bullet. I personally have a problem with that 338 bullet. The one on the right looks to be at least a legitimate candidate for a possible problem. Looks like it tumbled to me as I have seen this before. This can be caused from no expansion. And the tarnished look appears accurate. But the 338 isn't tarnished, it is corroded and oxidized which typically takes some serious time in the elements. Also, at 1152 yards, what was the remaining velocity? If it is under 1800 fps by Bergers definition it should expand very little if any. My guess is that you were very close to the 1800 fps threshold. Many guys I know want to see 1900 fps to be safe. Did you shoot the bear at a baiting station? Could it have been a different bullet that you dug up. If not are you sure you hit the bear solid, or maybe just a extremity hit? Just trying to make sense of this.
At the end of the day, the Berger idea of the perfect hunting bullets is a one I subscribe to and all of these things helps improve them to be the best they can be.