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Non-tox long range shooting

 
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  #1  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:16 AM
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Non-tox long range shooting

This may be a silly question, but how are a rifle's long range capabilites affected by using non-lead ammo? Should I be considering this into the equation when I purchase my next rifle if my plan is to use it as a long range hunter with non-tox only? Is there 1 cartridge that "likes" non-tox ammo better, or is there no reason to worry about such a thing?

Last edited by TheRoaminRaider; 08-02-2010 at 01:23 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2010, 06:09 AM
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Re: Non-tox long range shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoaminRaider View Post
This may be a silly question, but how are a rifle's long range capabilites affected by using non-lead ammo? Should I be considering this into the equation when I purchase my next rifle if my plan is to use it as a long range hunter with non-tox only? Is there 1 cartridge that "likes" non-tox ammo better, or is there no reason to worry about such a thing?
Non Toxic simply means led free bullets and can be made out of several materials, Copper,
copper alloys, gilding metal and brass.

These are considered monolithic solids and can be very accurate. and the expanding type
perform well in hunting situations also the solids are normally used for dangerous game
or target shooting.

I would not base the rifle on one type of bullet unless it is for a special purpose only.

Build the rifle in the caliber that you need/want and let it decide which bullet it likes.

The Non Toxic bullets can be used if required (Like in California)if you have to but require
no special rifle, Twist rate needs are the same for the non toxic as the jacketed for a
given weight of the bullet.

As far as I know there is no accuracy advantage in the non toxic ,just a slight increase in
the balistic coefficient because of the weight to length ratio.

J E CUSTOM
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2010, 06:39 AM
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Re: Non-tox long range shooting

J E is spot on. Build the rifle in the caliber that you need/want and let it decide which bullet it likes.
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2010, 05:29 PM
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Re: Non-tox long range shooting

I guess I should have been more specific, my next rifle needs to be able to take medium to large game from 400-1000 yrds, using only no-tox rounds. I don't know if that would qualify for a special purpose or not, but I would imagine so. Since I can only afford public land hunting and with the number of said areas that either require it now or will in the near future, I decided it would be alot better in the long run to purchase the rifle knowing it will use non-lead rather than " letting the rifle chose" as yall suggest. I'm sure that would probably end in the best result, but there are those of us who can't afford spending $300 in an assortment of ammunition to "custom fit" the $1000 rifle you just paid, especially since the rifle will be "handicapped" from the beginning by limiting ammo options. I know what no-tox ammo is, and am also aware that metals of different densities and specific gravities will have different flight and impact properties. Since a copper ( or other material) bullet cannot have the same the physical properties of an identically sized lead bullet, it stands to reason that there will be differences in the flight pattern and terminal velocity, especially on a long range shot.
Since the only 400+ yrd experience I have to date is at a firing range, punching paper with a .223 using lead, I was trying to see if anyone out there has noticed a tendency for a certain brand or caliber to perform better or worse with non-lead. For example, when the call for non-tox for waterfowl came down from the govt, certain companies were extremely resistent to the change and it resulted in the poor performing and barrel-damaging steelshot loads that were first available. Since many of the rifle brands (an even some cartridges) are new to me, I would rather not buy "Brand A" if the companies that makes "Brand A" are in some third-world country that has never heard of restricting lead or secretly own a lead plant in Siberia, since they would have no reason to design a rifle for that purpose. Or going back to the material composition, if a .270 copper round performs better than a .300 copper round, due to the size, shape, etc. Since I mainly solo backpack hunt, I have always carried a shotgun with an interchanging rifle barrel to maximize my hunting options while minimizing weight, and I have noticed a BIG difference in the factory lead slugs and coppersolids. But how much of that was Lead vs Non and not just brand A vs brand B or tipped vs hollow and so on, I really have no idea. I guess what I was wondering is if someone had "noticed that my Remington 700 .30-06 wont shoot MOA at 500 yrds with copper but will with lead" kinda stuff. Sorry, this is the first time I've joined a forum site, I'm not all that net savvy.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:41 PM
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Re: Non-tox long range shooting

Don't worry about net savvy I think that being net savvy would be a bad thing!

I'll get things started then others can shoot me out of the water.

From a quick read of your post you:
  1. Shoot a rig that has shotgun and rifle interchangeable barrels and,
  2. Have noticed a large difference between the performance of lead core bullets as compared to solid copper bullets.
With those assumptions in my head, here's my answer to your question. (grain of salt goes here, no smiley face for that)

Back in the day Lost River made some very fine solid bullets with a bronze point. They worked great in some barrels and not for squat in others. The barrels they worked in, for the most part, were tight bored barrels such as the Lilja barrels. These are known to be "tight" bored. In factory barrels with their larger bore size these bullets were fairly useless, for the most part.

The difference between solid and lead core bullets regarding internal ballistics is that solid bullets do not swell/expand upon firing. Lead core bullet do!

Thus with bullet diameter and bore diameter is more critical (my opinion).

You'll notice that many of the newer solid bullets are banded which helps to solve this problem while allowing lower pressures and higher velocities.

I don't know what make and model of shot/gun you are using but would suggest that if you're stuck with using non-toxic bullets that a "custom" barrel would increase your odds of having a shooter. Having said that I would suppose that Barnes or other offerings could be found to do the job.

I don't think you'll know until you try.

I have no experience with a gun that has both shotgun and rifle barrels, other than my grandson's Rossi 22/410 , so I've gone about as far as I should.

PS: If one cartridge/caliber shoots 'em any better than any other I'm sure it'll be a 270 Winchester
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2011, 12:58 AM
rem rem is offline
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Re: Non-tox long range shooting

I don't think you will ever get a lead free bullet with a (great BC) because the sectional density is to low. but if you can it should be fine.
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2011, 05:00 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 332
Re: Non-tox long range shooting

I'm not for Non-tox ammo. There are plenty of other reasons for using single piece/solid vs. guilded projectiles.

I was shooting 168gr match out of my 300 Win Mag, and Barnes had coincidently 168gr TSXs at that time. I worked up the load. Can't just swap out one brand for another of the same weight. They are lots different. They don't build as much pressure due to the reduced bearing in the bore, they fly different trajectories, with the same zero (still blows my mind) I can't say that they are less accurate.

Terminal performance, definitely impressive!
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