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new and trying to build

 
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2009, 04:30 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 675
Re: new and trying to build

You will like the 7mm mag as a cartrige. I have one and have just switched over to the 168 berger. Using 73 gr ADI 2217/H1000 I get 3080 fps out of a 26 inch barrel. There are no ejector marks on the cases but I am getting close to max loads. This loads shoots 0.5 moa at 100 yds. I haven't had a chance to shoot groups at longer range.

My ballsitic program shows 1528 ft/lbs at 800 yds with this load. I ran it at 3000 fps and it showed 1500 ft/lbs at 700 yds (.280fan said 1500 ft/lbs at 550 yds) not sure whose ballistic program is right!

As Kevin said, there will be other things that limit your range before remaining energy does. To be able to consistently hit the kill zone on a deer you need to be able to put your shots inside a 6 inch circle (elk would be bigger, but there are not many here in NZ) so just keep moving back until you can't hit that target, I bet it will be before 1000 yds.

I realise that the actual kill zone on a deer is bigger than 6 inches but the difference between shooting a nice relaxed shot off a bench versus a shot in the field where the rest is not quite perfect and the excitement is a bit higher will make up for the difference.

Hope this helps, and I haven't taught you to suck eggs,

Stu.
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2009, 04:33 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Central Idaho
Posts: 1,116
Re: new and trying to build

Quote:
Originally Posted by .280fan View Post
ds1304:

300WinMag with a 210VLD traveling 2700fps has 1499lbs of energy at 1k.

Have fun!

280fan has good information except I think there is an error in the statement above. Not trying to pick a fight just want to be accurate. A Berger .308 210gr VLD Hunting bullet with a BC of .631 and a velocity of 2700 fps altitude 0 temp. 60 degrees drops below 1500 ft lb of energy crossing the 700 yard mark according to Exbal.

At a 1000 yards the velocity is 1487 and the energy is 1031.

In my opinion the 300 Win Mag is a very good elk rife out to about 800 yards when hunting above 4000 ft. To go farther the 300 RUM is a better choice.
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2009, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 3,263
Re: new and trying to build

Jim (kcebcj):
You are right.....I read my exbal chart incorrectly or I loaded some data incorrectly. When I ran the numbers again, I came up with the same results as you for the 300WinMag shooting the 210VLD at 2700fps.

So I will amend my earlier statement and say that the 300RUM is the better choice as it shoots the 210VLD at 3000fps with 1470lbs of energy at 900.

Two other notes....

In terms of accuracy, someone posted the accuracy requirement. I always follow the rule of thumb that says your field accuracy is only half as good as your bench accuracy. This means if your rifle shoots .5 MOA on the bench, you're going to get 1moa in the field (given all the other factors - less than solid rest, adrenaline pumping....etc). That means, for long range shooting, I would accept no less than .5moa for a rifle that I wanted to shoot 1k at an elk.

Also, I agree with woolecox...if the rifle we're discussing does not have the HS Precision stock already on it, then I would not go that route. I would find a less expensive rifle and build it up from there. I've gone this route twice.....

This started out as a Rem700SPS and cost ~$1300 when complete..... http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...ld-pics-43510/

This one started life as a Rem700 Mountain Rifle and cost ~$2000 when done... My 280 - Updated!


Quote:
Originally Posted by kcebcj View Post
280fan has good information except I think there is an error in the statement above. Not trying to pick a fight just want to be accurate. A Berger .308 210gr VLD Hunting bullet with a BC of .631 and a velocity of 2700 fps altitude 0 temp. 60 degrees drops below 1500 ft lb of energy crossing the 700 yard mark according to Exbal.

At a 1000 yards the velocity is 1487 and the energy is 1031.

In my opinion the 300 Win Mag is a very good elk rife out to about 800 yards when hunting above 4000 ft. To go farther the 300 RUM is a better choice.
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2009, 07:21 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 13
Re: new and trying to build

I am new to this site as well, however I have gone through some rifles for general hunting. Also I will state that I am not a long range hunter, and mentioned in a different post that I have only shot animals to 400 yards. With all that said I do have an opinion on this subject.

You are buying a factory rifle. It has been my experience that not all factory rifles will shoot to what you need. Some rifles I have owned are not what I consider acceptable. When I buy a new factory rifle I also buy three boxes of quality ammo. If it will not shoot under and inch all the time I sell. It just seems it will take alot of effort to make it shoot. Some guns just shoot good, some shoot not so good.

So what I am getting at don't be married to the rifle you are buying unless this is custom built with an accurracy guarantee. It may take a few to get a good one, or you could get one on the first try.

Just my two cents. Shane
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2009, 12:08 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Black Hills of South Dak
Posts: 214
Re: new and trying to build

Those guys at The Best of the West sure knock a lot of stuff over way out there w/ a 7 mag..
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2009, 01:18 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,615
Re: new and trying to build

I agree with AJ. I have at least fifteen 7mm rifles and would not even consider one for long range elk. Everything has just got to be perfect and in the real world hunting situations are how they develop and not perfect. Killing elk has nothing to do with minimal foot pounds from a ballistics chart that I have found. It just has to do with how well the caliber kills. The very minimum I would consider would be a big 30. But if your going to get a new rifle why not get the best and not fool with something that may be minimal or marginal. I am a retired engineer and just think to logical I guess but that is something I could never understand. If a guy is going to spend the money for a new rig why not get the best instead of something that is marginal in some situations and will limit your shots.

One of you may see me out with something like my favorite 264 STW or something on elk and think I don't practice what I preach. I guess the answer is I have over a hundred rifles in all calibers and love to shoot all of them. Could I kill an elk with that 264 stw at a 1000 yards, I guarantee I could and I would wait for the shot to do it. Would it be the best choice, no. But I am not saving my money for one rifle and I have killed so many elk I don't care if the right shot happens or not. I will just wait till next time. The average guy can't do that and needs that one rifle that will make any shot at any time and be the best at it.

There is a reason for caliber minimums in Africa for large animals. Because profesional hunters know the effects of large calibers on game. They can crush dangerous game to the ground instead of toying with them.

Most times a small caliber weapon will work but there are those times when animals will be lost, particularly at long range. The more experience a guy gets the more he realizes that is fact and not opinion.

Probably none of this makes any sense but at least I tried.
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2009, 09:47 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 90
Re: new and trying to build

Quote:
Killing elk has nothing to do with minimal foot pounds from a ballistics chart that I have found. It just has to do with how well the caliber kills.
I respectfully disagree Sir. Killing anything, elk included, has everything to with the kinetic energy delivered at a given range for a given projectile. This can be illustrated in ballistic tables as well as real world applications.

For instance, an average load for a 223 Rem shooting a 55 gr. Nosler will deliver less energy at 300 yards than a 7mm Rem Mag shooting a 168 gr. VLD. And through common sense and experience we all know the 7mm will have the most killing power in the above example. That is solely attributed to energy.

Pick any bullet and that bullet will perform differently at different ranges due to loss of velocity and energy. All major hunting bullet manufacturers have recommended minimum velocity/energy levels in order for their bullets to perform adequately. Read expand. Can you kill with less? Sure! If you hit it right. Recovery may be longer.

What kind of engineer did you say you where? Just kidding man. You make a good point.
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