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New Sendero troubles

 
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2011, 11:41 PM
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Re: New Sendero troubles

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Originally Posted by Topshot View Post
Mark,
Why would you get rid of a 0.5 MOA Sendero based on a solid Remington action. Then replace it with a "CAST" Howa action that have been known to fail in a catastrophic manner.
Not many gunsmiths will touch a Howa action as they are not considered safe in larger calibres..
Wow Topshot! You caused me a lot of research! Anyway... I know it sounds crazy to sell a .5 MOA rifle, but my 25-06 is about shot out, so it needs replaced or rebuilt anyway. It's badly firecracked by the previous owner but it still shot well for me for a while and I did get a nice speed goat buck with a pin point accurate 280 yd shot. The last couple of groups I shot from it opened up a little. I will probably keep it around until I get a replacement and maybe snuff a few prairie dogs in with it the mean time.

The 300 Ultra has a couple hundred rounds or so through it and I'll probably put another couple hundred through it before I sell it. It will be my spring bear rifle and I'll hold on to it until I have a replacement which I'm planning on being a 300-375 Ruger. So wasn't planning on building a RUM on a Howa action because it it's a bit too small. In fact, IMO the Rem action is also too small for the RUM for the bullets I am planning on using - which are .010 longer than the 210 Bergers.

That being said, I have two Rems and one Howa (S&W M1500) and I like the Howa much better, not to say the Rem isn't a good action - it is. How's that for politics Seriously though, the Rem is a good action, but I think the Howa is better and I'm not the only one with that opinion. Some folks will tell you that Rem 700's are junk. I think some have had their issues but overall it has been a good work horse.

This is the first I've heard of Howa's being cast. I don't doubt you, I just never heard it before and after some googling, I only found one second hand reference to it. Never-the-less, Weatherby offers the Vanguards in 300 WM, 338 WM and 300 Wby Mag. The latter has about 5 gr more case capacity than the 375 Ruger and I found a couple of references to 375 Rugers built on Howa actions. So I think I'm safe with that. I also found this well know smith whio likes using Howa's for Lapua builds....

Roedale Precision - Semi-Custom

Some smiths wont build a Lapua on a Rem 700, but everyone has different standards.

As for catastrophic failure, again, first I've heard of it and if you could provide details and reference I would be no kidding interested.

Why I like the Howa over the Rem 700...

- One piece gas ported bolt
- Better bolt fit and smoother action (with my rifles)
- Better designed bolt release
- M16 style extractor
- Side by side comparison, heavier more robust reciever
- Integrated recoil lug
- Much more simple and easier trigger tuning (in my experience)
-- I spent over an hour tuning each of my 700 triggers
-- 2 min to tune my Howa

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it... and if I leave this world breaking the trigger of my Howa... well... there are worse ways to go... and I'll bequeath my NXS to you which I have no doubt will escape with only minor scratches

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 02-20-2011 at 12:15 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-20-2011, 12:03 AM
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Re: New Sendero troubles

Mark,

They are definately a cast action.

No web based reports on the failures that I can refer you to. Just investigation reports from gunsmiths down here that have been conducted at the request of the NRAA when a rifle blows up. Its a well known problem down here.

The local gunsmiths will not touch a howa action other than a straight forward rebarrel job to a standard calibre. If it fails then they might be blamed.

Seems that failures could have something to do with gunsmiths opening up the action to fit a larger barrel tennon. The front of the action blows out on one side and the barrel heads West!

Standard calibres would be Ok but I would not be taking too much metal away from the front of that action.
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  #24  
Old 02-20-2011, 01:14 AM
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Re: New Sendero troubles

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topshot View Post
Mark,

They are definately a cast action.

No web based reports on the failures that I can refer you to. Just investigation reports from gunsmiths down here that have been conducted at the request of the NRAA when a rifle blows up. Its a well known problem down here.

The local gunsmiths will not touch a howa action other than a straight forward rebarrel job to a standard calibre. If it fails then they might be blamed.

Seems that failures could have something to do with gunsmiths opening up the action to fit a larger barrel tennon. The front of the action blows out on one side and the barrel heads West!

Standard calibres would be Ok but I would not be taking too much metal away from the front of that action.
No worries mate, and thanks for the tip I'll be sure to broach the subject with my smith. As of yet, he still thinks we're doing a 300 WSM build since I only had this 375 Ruger epiphany this moring... and I know he does like Howa actions, but not real crazy about B&C stocks.

Cheers
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  #25  
Old 02-20-2011, 11:29 AM
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Re: New Sendero troubles

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Originally Posted by Topshot View Post
Mark,

They are definately a cast action.
From Weatherby's website:

"Introduced in 1970, the Weatherby Vanguard® action (based on a Mauser-style, dual opposed lug design) takes many of its cues from our legendary Mark V® action, including a one-piece machined receiver, fully enclosed bolt sleeve and three rings of steel surrounding the casehead."

Maybe they should be told that their recievers are cast and not machined?
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  #26  
Old 02-20-2011, 01:21 PM
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Re: New Sendero troubles

From Chuck Hawks...

Quote:
All Vanguards are based on an action using a one-piece forged and machined, flat bottomed receiver and a machined steel bolt with dual opposed locking lugs. This modified Mauser action is built to Weatherby specifications by Howa in Tokyo, Japan.
The Howa bolt action is a good one, and the version produced for the Vanguard incorporates many of the features of the Mark V. The cartridge head is contained within Weatherby's famous three rings of steel. The one-piece bolt body is fluted, there are three gas escape ports in the side of the bolt and a streamlined bolt sleeve shrouds the rear of the bolt. Also similar to the Mark V is the flush mounted claw extractor at the front of the bolt and the plunger ejector in the recessed bolt face.
The two position Vanguard safety locks the bolt closed in the "safe" position, just like a Mark V safety, but it is not as quiet in operation and is shaped differently. There is also a Mark V type cocking indicator for added safety. ...\

Weatherby Vanguard Rifles
Sorry for the hijack WV Sendero, but maybe you have learned something...

Topshot, I know that Ruger M77's are cast actions... could these be what you are refering to?

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 02-20-2011 at 01:24 PM.
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  #27  
Old 02-20-2011, 06:14 PM
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Re: New Sendero troubles

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Originally Posted by gunwalker View Post
From Weatherby's website:

"Introduced in 1970, the Weatherby Vanguard® action (based on a Mauser-style, dual opposed lug design) takes many of its cues from our legendary Mark V® action, including a one-piece machined receiver, fully enclosed bolt sleeve and three rings of steel surrounding the casehead."

Maybe they should be told that their recievers are cast and not machined?
I can find hundreds of reference to Howa actions being investment cast.
This is a typical reason why gunsmiths down here do not work on Howa actions!
Not investment case hey? Here is one that was!




Wolfe Publishing Company

338 Lapua on Howa 1500 LA
Howa 1500/Vanguard SA vs. an L579 - 24hourcampfire
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  #28  
Old 02-20-2011, 06:59 PM
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Re: New Sendero troubles

Topshot,

I don't have a dog in this hunt. And, I don't really care who wins this debate.

But, the sources you're providing aren't easily verifiable. It's just more guys with more opinions.

The photo you provided of a catastrophic failure is just a photo.

You've got my curiosity now. So, I'll look around some on my own.

But, it would be helpful if you can provide credible/verifiable sources.

Thanks,
Richard
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