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New Sendero troubles

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  #1  
Unread 01-31-2011, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 169
New Sendero troubles

I just bought a new Sendero 7mm mag about a month ago. I now have 150 rounds through it and have not found a load that will shoot better than 1". I have tried three different bullets and five powders. I'm not sure what is causing my problems. I am finding brass shavings on the bolt face and the base of the cases are somewhat scarred up. The brass is Norma so it is not just cheap brass. Some cases are hard to work in the action especially after neck sizing (I'm not shooting hot loads and there a absolutely no pressure signs). None of the fired cases are hard to eject though. I also had some dummy snap caps to practice with and try the trigger after adjustments and the gun also scarred up these cases around the base. If anyone has any idea what the problem is and what my options are please let me know.
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  •   #2  
    Unread 01-31-2011, 03:46 PM
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    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Location: Allen, TX
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    Re: New Sendero troubles

    Have you tried any factory premium ammo?

    Have you had good success with thes dies on other rifles? (Bad dies)

    Have you been able to measure concentricity, headspace, COAL?

    Norma is the best I've found for 7mm Rem Mag.

    Do you also use other premium components?
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      #3  
    Unread 01-31-2011, 06:59 PM
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    Re: New Sendero troubles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rscott5028 View Post
    Have you tried any factory premium ammo?

    Have you had good success with thes dies on other rifles? (Bad dies)

    Have you been able to measure concentricity, headspace, COAL?

    Norma is the best I've found for 7mm Rem Mag.

    Do you also use other premium components?
    I haven't shot any factory ammo in it at all mostly because I need to make it shoot reloads. I haven't used the dies on other rifles because it is my only 7mm but the FL sizer and seater dies are the RCBS competition dies and the neck sizer is the regular RCBS. As far as other components I have used Norma brass, Amaxs, VLDs, and Matchkings. Primers were Fed LR match, and WLRMag. Powders were Retumbo, RL22, H4350, IMR 4350, H1000. Nothing I use is junk stuff which is why I can't figure out whats going on. The scope is a Mark 4 8.5-25 and the rings and base are also Mark 4. The thing that concerns me the most is the brass shavings on the bolt face and the scarring on the base of the brass (it also did this with the dummy rounds).
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      #4  
    Unread 01-31-2011, 08:01 PM
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    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Location: Idaho
    Posts: 581
    Re: New Sendero troubles

    I tried several bullet powder combos in mine and ended up with
    H4831SC for both 160 accubonds and and the 168 bergers
    now Im working on 120 vmax which 4350 shot one hole at 100 yards
    so Im going to play with that alittle and try N165 on friday
    I could not get the amax to shot and did not try the matchkings
    All my brass in winchester and I use WLRM primers.
    One thing look in the bolt face there is a rivit like thing near the extractor
    a budy bought a remington cdl and it was not flush like it should be
    had to send it back to remington to fix it
    good luck
    Retiredcpo
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      #5  
    Unread 01-31-2011, 08:05 PM
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    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Location: Allen, TX
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    Re: New Sendero troubles

    Perhaps someone else can address the brass shavings on the bolt face...

    In most cases, I see that with heavy loads. But, it could be accentuated by too much bolt thrust due to a slick chamber. If neither of those, then something is scoring the brass. And, it may or may not have much to do with your groups.

    Check the fololowig:
    - you already addressed the scope mounts/bases
    - barrel is floated (nothing touching i.e. fingers, sling stud)
    - action screws torqued correctly
    - proper cleaning techniques (e.g. carbon fiber rod, bore guide)
    - if it has a brake, try without the brake
    - try a box of premium factory ammo

    You sound like you've got experience. But, I'm amazed at how many variations you've tried. I'd step back and start with the basics.

    It sounds like you only use quality components. So, I would focus on Norma Brass, RL22, GM215M primers, and 168 Bergers. (that combo works for me. or, pick a combination that's worked for others) Vary only the powder charge and, work up from min load to max with the ogive right at the lands using 2 shots each at half grain increments.

    Pick the best 2 shot group surrounded by a couple of good groups that are also of similar elevation. In other words, some range of powder charge that seems stable.

    Then, load/shoot 3 rounds at different seating depths holding the powder charge constant and adding .040" seating depths until you get to > .100.

    Pick the best group, and load that group shooting 2 groups of 5 shots.

    Now, start refining the powder charge +/- half grain in smaller steps again.

    The objective is to change only one variable at a time and keep fine tuning.

    There are a number of other methods. but, it sounds like you got frustrated along the way and started trying too many different components.

    Hope something here helps!
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      #6  
    Unread 01-31-2011, 09:45 PM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Jan 2011
    Location: West Virginia
    Posts: 169
    Re: New Sendero troubles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rscott5028 View Post
    Perhaps someone else can address the brass shavings on the bolt face...

    In most cases, I see that with heavy loads. But, it could be accentuated by too much bolt thrust due to a slick chamber. If neither of those, then something is scoring the brass. And, it may or may not have much to do with your groups.

    Check the fololowig:
    - you already addressed the scope mounts/bases
    - barrel is floated (nothing touching i.e. fingers, sling stud)
    - action screws torqued correctly
    - proper cleaning techniques (e.g. carbon fiber rod, bore guide)
    - if it has a brake, try without the brake
    - try a box of premium factory ammo

    You sound like you've got experience. But, I'm amazed at how many variations you've tried. I'd step back and start with the basics.

    It sounds like you only use quality components. So, I would focus on Norma Brass, RL22, GM215M primers, and 168 Bergers. (that combo works for me. or, pick a combination that's worked for others) Vary only the powder charge and, work up from min load to max with the ogive right at the lands using 2 shots each at half grain increments.

    Pick the best 2 shot group surrounded by a couple of good groups that are also of similar elevation. In other words, some range of powder charge that seems stable.

    Then, load/shoot 3 rounds at different seating depths holding the powder charge constant and adding .040" seating depths until you get to > .100.

    Pick the best group, and load that group shooting 2 groups of 5 shots.

    Now, start refining the powder charge +/- half grain in smaller steps again.

    The objective is to change only one variable at a time and keep fine tuning.

    There are a number of other methods. but, it sounds like you got frustrated along the way and started trying too many different components.

    Hope something here helps!
    First thanks for your suggestions. I actually already did everything you suggested (torque, carbon fiber rod, guide, checked mounts, barrel is floated) minus the factory ammo. I hope you're right about just getting in too big of a hurry. I'm just annoyed because I'm trying to be meticulous about everything and I am not getting what I expect. I tried the seating at different depths and it seemed to do the best right at the lands. Retumbo and Amaxs did the best so I guess I will go back to them and try to refine those loads like you suggested. I am the most concerned about the brass problem because it did it on dummy rounds, and new empty brass. It just scars the brass right on the rim of the base like it is the extractor or something. If it is the extractor doing this is it likely that it would cause accuracy problems or simply just give me the brass shavings?

    Last edited by WV Sendero; 01-31-2011 at 09:49 PM.
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      #7  
    Unread 01-31-2011, 10:02 PM
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    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Location: Idaho
    Posts: 581
    Re: New Sendero troubles

    Again
    Inspect the bolt face
    my buddies remington was doing the same thing on the lip near the extractor
    is a rivit looking thing it should be flush his was not and was scaring up the brass and interfering with ejection shells
    It had to be fixed my remington but now it shoots great
    retiredcpo
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