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The New Raptor is hatching.....

 
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  #92  
Old 01-15-2010, 12:32 AM
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Re: The New Raptor is hatching.....

Linksmechanic,

I always FL size my wildcat cases. THey have such a large baring surface to the chamber and min taper that you WILL get into stick chambering and extractions unless you FL size. That said, I generally only bump the shoulders 1 to 2 thou, just enough to chamber properly in the rifle and absolutely no more then that.

I am nearly 100% sure the vertical stringing was caused by a combination of the stock and the rail base sliding a bit on the receiver. Both of those issues are history!!!

In spite of what many say, a barrel should be lubed after cleaning and before firing the first shot through a clean bore. I have actually tested this by scoping a bore after shooting that first round. With a properly cleaned bore that is completely broken in, if you fire a round on a dry barrel, yes it may hit on point of impact but it WILL copper foul the barrel. That is a simple fact.

No matter the quality of the bore finish, if you force a bullet over a dry bore surface, you will get copper residue left on the bore.

Comparing that to a barrel that has been cleaned and then lubed properly and then fire that first round, copper fouling is all but non existant. Perhaps its the machinist in me but one example would be me trying to machine a fine match barrel without using any cutting oil....... Would not turn out very well.

Some will say that fouling the barrel before going to the field leaves abrasive carbon fouling in the barrel that will also absorb moisture. To that I would as do you clean after every shot to prevent any carbon fouling and I have yet to see a barrel, even one that gets very wet have any problems as long as its cleaned properly after it has been wet.

The easiest thing to do is use a hair drier to heat the barrel so its warm to the touch of your hand. That heat of the barrel will cause all moisture on the barrel and in the bore to evaporate so thats really not an issue either.

My professional opinion, a barrel that has been cleaned should never be fired without lubing the bore first. I have never seen anything to make me think or recommend otherwise and I have seen plenty to back up my recommendations.
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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  #93  
Old 01-15-2010, 03:28 AM
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Re: The New Raptor is hatching.....

The Raptor is sure coming out well with each day!
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  #94  
Old 01-15-2010, 06:13 AM
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Re: The New Raptor is hatching.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Linksmechanic,

My professional opinion, a barrel that has been cleaned should never be fired without lubing the bore first. I have never seen anything to make me think or recommend otherwise and I have seen plenty to back up my recommendations.
Every sniper that I have ever talked to online or in person has recommended a dry bore. They say they clean them down to bare metal and will leave a light layer of oil for storage. Before using they run a couple patches down with alcohol on the patch to strip the oil out. One even said that Smith & Wesson taught his team that they clean to bare metal, and fire one shot to foul before storage so when the time arises to take that critical shot their rifle is already dry and fouled. Just a thought, and wanted to share my experience. The other issue is hydraulic pressure in the barrel due to expansion of fluid due to the pressures of the bullet going through the bore. I guess it is what you prefer and are taught.

Tank
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  #95  
Old 01-15-2010, 09:27 AM
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Re: The New Raptor is hatching.....

Liltank,

Yes, and their first shot will likely be on the money and they WILL have copper fouling from that first shot as well. My recommendations are for those of us on LRH who are long range target shooters, long range varmint hunters and long range big game hunters, not military snipers.

I would agree, if your first shot HAS to be on the money in a life or death situation, it would be best to shoot out of a dry bore but none of us here are ever in that situation.

To get the longest string of accurate shots, you will be better served to shoot a cleaned bore with a thin layer of lube in the bore to prevent fouling.

Another thing to consider is the chamberings that those snipers are shooting in their rifles. VERY low intensity rounds with projos that have relatively small baring surface and in relatively slow test barrels. About as non intense of a situation for bore fouling as you can get.

A 308 with a 175 gr SMK at 2650 fps out of a 1-10 or 1-11 twist barrel is pretty darn mild. There will still be some bore fouling firing first shot from a dry bore but when you compare it to say my 338 AX with a 300 gr SMK loaded to +3000 fps which probablyhas three times the baring surface to the bore you can see my point.

Or even say a 6.5 WSM with a 142 gr SMK loaded to 3100 fps in a 1-8 twist barrel.

Again, Snipers have to play by a different set of rules. We have the luxury of being able to foul out barrels before we have to use them, they often can not. Many of us like to think we are snipers which is kind of silly and comparing the two different types of shooting practices really does not make sense.

After all, everything the military does and teaches about firearm care is gospel!!! LOL

Ask 100 smiths their opinion and likely you will get that many replies. To each their own. I am just offering factual results I have tested and proven by scoping bores after first shot out of a cleaned bore and also checking the amount of fouling after a 10 shot string starting with a dry bore and lubed bore. The difference is certainly measurable.
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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  #96  
Old 01-15-2010, 09:57 AM
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Re: The New Raptor is hatching.....

Kirby, not to get off subject of that awesome rifle of yours. Would kroil be good to lube the barrel with after cleaning if not what would you suggest.

Thanks,
Nathan
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  #97  
Old 01-15-2010, 10:05 AM
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Re: The New Raptor is hatching.....

Interesting... my experience when cleaning down to bare metal is it will take several shots regardless if you lube or nor not to settle in the barrel (factory barrels). In the past, when I "thought" I was cleaning to bare metal and actually wasn't, the first shot was usually right in there.

Now I will clean to bare metal and lube with Gun Juice right after. Since I don't have the luxury of shooting out the back door where I live, I have to wait until I get to the range or the in the field to foul it and I use a lighter load for that.

Kirby, I think you're right. If you ask a 100 different people, you'll get a 100 different ways using different products etc to clean and foul, etc.

I've been watching this thread with a lot of interest. Very inovative stuff. Not sure I'll ever have need for one of these beautiful beasts, but it's very cool watching the progress.

Cheers,

Mark
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  #98  
Old 01-15-2010, 10:37 AM
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Re: The New Raptor is hatching.....

Fifty,

Not to derail here, but this is an interesting detail you've brought up here. I also wondered what exactly you meant by 'lube'.

nddodd and MR ask about Kroil and GJ for 'lube'. Would either of these work for what you are describing? What do you use and your 'procedure'?

I've just been using GJ as the last thing I pass through the barrel after cleaning and then (when I remember) another pass of it before first shot.

Thanks,

Jon
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