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Need some advice

 
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  #1  
Old 12-06-2009, 01:50 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sidney, Tx
Posts: 36
Need some advice

I have spent a considerable amount of time reading these forums and I have to admit, Iím hooked. I have hunted whitetail all my life, and I am ready to step it up a notch. I live in a pretty flat area, and have the opportunity to take some long range shots. I see there is a lot of talent/information here, so I am asking for help.

I have a Savage Model 11 chambered in .308. I am planning to have some smithing done and I am looking for some advice. I want to upgrade the stock and barrel. I want to have the smith do a bedding job, and possibly truing and timing the action. Iím still learning about glass bed vs pillar bed, and Iím not exactly sure what truing and timing the action actually means.

I plan to hunt whitetail out to 500 yards, and possibly do some target shooting out past that. Probably going to use 165-168 grain hand loaded ammo.

Here are my questions:

1.Can anyone give me advice on the bedding?
2.Can someone explain what, if anything, needs to be done to the action?
3.I need some advice on the barrel. If I plan on using 165-168 grain ammo, what rifling am I looking for?
4. I have been looking at sharp shooter supply and they seem like they know whats up with Savage. If anyone has anything positive or negative to say about them, I would appreciate the input.


We can discuss optics later. I want to get the gun right before I go too far. I will also be asking for advice on load data after I get the rifle setup. Thanks guys.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,325
Re: Need some advice

Are you looking at staying with the .308? For the game that you are talking about hunting, and the distances, I think you may want to consider some other calibers. I may have missed it in your post. Do you hand load?

These discussions about caliber choice can have a tendency to make a guys head swim. There will be many opinions as to what you should do. I think that for what you described that you may be better served by going to the .260 or the 7-08. Better bc's and flatter shooting. I am a big fan of the 6.5 calibers. If you stay with the .308 parent case. If you are hand loading, then you could go with an Ackley Improved version of the .260 that I mentioned and have what I think would be an ideal deer cartridge out to 700 yrds.

Let's see what others here have to say.

Steve
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:51 PM
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Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,012
Re: Need some advice

308 to 500yrds will be fine. You want a 1:12 minimum twist and the number of grooves is preferential. If you shoot a 168 grain bullet you are good to knock a deer down to about 550 yards. If you use a 175 you can add 100 yards. Your speed should be at 2650fps or better.

Not knowing how old your mod 11 is, you may just need to glass bed it. Devcon I think is the name of the bedding material. Your smith should know, and he may have something he prefers. If it is a newer rifle then it is already pillar bedded. If you don't have the Accu-trigger, have your smith lighten it up, and if you want to spend the coin, then look at replacing with an after market trigger. Make sure your barrel is completely free floated and not touching the forearm anywhere.

Practice, Practice, Practice. I have a load capable of 1200yards, but I have not practiced to that distance, so I am not willing to go that far. Practice the distance that you wish to shoot.

Tank
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"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

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  #4  
Old 12-06-2009, 08:11 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sidney, Tx
Posts: 36
Re: Need some advice

Thanks for the input. I prefer to stay with the 308. I don't see myself trying another outside of 500 yds. If I ever get to that point, I will know a lot more by then, and I will put together another rifle. The mod 11 was bought last January new. It does have the Accutrigger.

One more question. What barrel length should I be considering? I will be carrying the gun some, but pretty short distances. Less than a mile, in flat terrain.

Thanks again.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2009, 12:51 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Casper Wy
Posts: 1,290
Re: Need some advice

IMHO the KISS formula works with a Savage=Keep It Super Simple and in my case CHEAP! The biggest thing Savage has going for it is the ease of doing the improvements yourself.
1.Can anyone give me advice on the bedding?
Beding usualy doesnt hurt and isnt always nessisary. If the stock fails any of these three things I'll make a point to bed it.
#1 Some people use a dallar to make sure the barrel is free-floated, with a plastic Savage stock fold the dallar a few times= 1/8th" is not too much! Sandpaper around a deep well socket works good to get more room. Moveing the bipod stud back a couple of inches will help a lot.
#2 Make sure the rear tang is free-floated too!! Work a piece of paper around the edges to tell, there doesnt need to be a big gap but it should not be touching either.
#3 Loosen the 2 screws holding the stock to the action and retighten. Now with one hand holding the barrel and stock loosen the front action screw and feel for movement....If it moves much your gonna want to bed it...Even if it already has pillars!!
Beding your first rifle can be a little intimidateing but the Savage is an easy one to start with. If you have a smith do it make sure he knows the difference between a Savage and a Remington= Dont bed the rear tang on a Savage!!

2.Can someone explain what, if anything, needs to be done to the action?
The short answer is nuthin. The Savage action by design is very forgiving. Timeing and trueing usually benifit you more than the action, the action will be smoother but very seldom shoots any better. If you reload it may help brass life to reset the headspace with a piece of brass that has been resized in your equipment. Just make sure it passes a no-go safty check when your done!
3.I need some advice on the barrel. If I plan on using 165-168 grain ammo, what rifling am I looking for?
The factory barrel should get you to 500 yards with a little load work. How does it shoot now? An aftermarket 11 or 12 twist will probably be easier to clean and need cleaned less often but may not shoot any better?

4. I have been looking at sharp shooter supply and they seem like they know whats up with Savage. If anyone has anything positive or negative to say about them, I would appreciate the input.
Fred knows his way around a Savage so does Kevin Rayhill and many other reputable gunsmiths.

If it aint broke dont fix it. Load developement and practice will make a lot bigger difference on a target than throwing $$$ at it!!
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2009, 09:59 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,012
Re: Need some advice

Again length is preferential. If it is flat easy walking you may want to look at a 24 to 26 inch barrel. Obviously the less material present the lighter the gun. If you go longer you want to make sure it is a heavier contour so the barrel isn't to whippy when shooting. For in woods hunting the 22" that is on the rifle will work just fine. If you have flat open area to shoot, then get a nice medium to heavy contour and set up on a bench or a bi-pod.

The name of the game is "The more rigid the better." Just out of curiosity... do you have the Accu-stock model? If you have that model all suggestions for bedding go out the window!

Just some suggestions for the .308 in barrels. A lot of guys are very happy with the Broughten, Lilja, Douglas, Hart, and Krieger. I have decided to go with a 3 groove 1:11 for my Savage in 300WSM.

Tank
__________________
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:37 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fredericksburg VA
Posts: 4,058
Re: Need some advice

If you want to stay with the savage action, then couple things to consider.

The savage actions are a little different in bedding and other tweaks. Fred Moreo and Kevin Rayhill are two of the best and most often used.

I would strongly recommend truing and timing the action. In fact, you might find you are ahead to ask Fred at SSS if he has one already in stock already done. He normally keeps a couple for immediate sale.

I have seen warped Savage actions, so have it checked.

SSS sells some very good laminate stocks. Get one, well worth the money.

Stay with one bullet, the 175 gr (either SMK or Berger). The 168 will go subsonic at 900 or so and start keyholing, so why work up a load with it when you will go the 175 eventually anyway. The 175 will go much further.

Start shooting F class to learn wind doping and basic LR shooting. ergo another reason to go with the 175 over the 168 as you shoot out to 1000.

1-11 twist is the standard for most.

Now having said that, you might want to look at the savage FTR or palma rifles in 308. Good to go out of the box and sell for under $1000

Go to www.savageshooters.com and Northlander there normally has them for sale. Good place to find a savage already set up or barrel and stock for sale also.

BH

Last edited by BountyHunter; 12-07-2009 at 10:40 AM.
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