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I try to stay even keeled but at times something can hit me just the wrong way and I can over react and take a dive off the DEEP END, this is one of those times.
Jesse James Freese's claim of taking a Badger at 2238yds with a 300WSM with 210gr Berger's and ranging it with a Leica Geovid is TOTAL BULL feces !!!!!!!!!!!!!(sorry Len).
I can say this because I won the VHA Long Shot of the Year award last year with the help of goodgrouper,7mmRHB and Oldbear with VASTLY SUPERIOR equiptment and it took me shot's into the double digit's on the perfect day to accomplish my goal,I know what it takes to achieve success at this range and he is feeding us a LIE !!!!!!!
In protest I am sending the V.H.A. back the Plaque/trophy they gave me last year, it has no legitimacy if this kind of crap is allowed without question.
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While I will agree w/most of what you said, sometimes you just gotta give people the benefit of the doubt. Just take it for what it's worth. While you and I know there is no honor in it, some people may get a sense of accomplishment from it. I mean that bullet had to go somewhere. Maybe the guy will win the lottery as well. I bet he's even been struck by lightning. Twice.
If Lerch and I manage to get it next year w/that second rifle Kirby is piecing together from scraps, you can bet it won't be made up!!!
That has got to be the winner for the stupidest post of 2007. What would you like for a prize?
There have been crooks and liars ever since the serpent wriggled on into the garden of Eden. You are only responsible for your own behavior and your own reputation.
Organizations like the magazine make the rules and then they must live by them. Someone will always take advantage of an honor system but that does not diminish the honesty and integrity of those that play by the rules. There are always people who will road hunt and there are always people that will drag off someone elses deer. That is no reason to stop hunting, just a reason to fire warning shots at deer and elk close to the road to scare them away.
Whether the guy did nor did not make the shot I do not know but here is something to think about. I had a second tour sniper who was exceptional. He was using a glass bedded M-14 with 308 match ammo. Two NVA soldeirs were spotted walking along an abandoned railroad in single file at a distance of a mile give or take (long ago and I have never found the records for that shot). He hit the lead guy with the fourth shot and when the buddy bent down and raised up the wounded guy, my man put a fatal fifth round into him. Now UncleB, you go and find where a 308 drops subsonic and how much killing power it has at a mile and then think what a 300WSM can do to a badger a few hundred yards further. That proves nothing other than sometimes a person has a lucky day and sometimes a person just lies about stuff. I do not know the truth, but I know I have seen a few people who were really good do some difficult things with a rifle.
Keep your mantle trinket and go and look in the mirror. The person you see is the only one whose honesty you are responsible for.
I understand your comments but please realize the possibilities that are out there. Will a 210 gr Berger fly to this range, sure it will.
Will it be supersonic, no chance in haties!!
Is it possible to hit something with this rifle, possible yes, likely or consistantly, never. Without knowing any real information about the actual shot, I can only imagine is was a result of sending alot of ammo down range and the moon and stars aligned and one of the bullets landed on its mark.
Unfortunately, this is all that is required to qualify for the shot. Could this be a lie, sure it could, is it possible he made the shot, anything is possible as that bullet will certainly travel that far but again, if it did happen, it would be very interesting to hear the story about the shot.
I could care less about the shot that Jesse made. He is his own man and has to live with his word like we all do. I hope he is on the up and up. If it was total luck, it still counts!! Again, if I had gotten off my rear, this would not even be a topic right now.
As far as the rangefinder topic, there is no way it will range that far.........in one shot at least, BUT, depending on where he was at for the shot, some of Montana is pretty darn flat. He could have easily lined up a couple trucks between the point of the shot and the impact and ranged it in sections. Is this really accurate, no, not really but if the terrain is right it can be done and get within 50 to 100 yards easily even at these ranges. I hope this is what he did again because that RF has no chance at getting a consistant measurement at ranges of this class.
All that said, What saddens me more then anything is your comment about returning your award to Varmint Hunters in protest. Your shot was legit, we all know that and it would be a shame for you to give that back just because of the cloud over this years winner.
If anything, I would like to see you, as a past Long Shot of the Year award winner call them up and recommend that each winner of the Long Shot of the Year award should be interviewed for an article in the magazine. Not a one paragraph snip-it. Get us details and actual happenings on the shoot. Ask them to tell us complete specs on rifle and optical systems, rangefinders, load data, bullet, velocity all that good stuff. Conditions of the hunt, number of shots needed for the kill at this range.
Basically just give us a complete article about the event. Hell, its at least worth that much and we would all be interested to hear about it an it would answer alot of questions about the winners of these awards. Also, those that may be thinking of fibbing about extreme range shots may think twice before doing this because they would know they would have to answer some decent amount of questions for the write up.
Anyone that has shot at this range knows that one shot kills are the goal but not realistic to be honest. I got my 2370 yard kill in 5 shots from start to kill. This is a VERY slight amount of rounds and I know full well a large amount of luck was involved in the hit. I was also using about the most extreme ballistic performing system available today with a fresh barrel in extremely good shooting conditions. I also know I may well put over a hundred more rounds down the tube at varmints before breaking this personal best so it would be interesting just to know how many shots it took to make the kill.
As you said, you have to fire many shots to get your winning kill and to a fellow extreme range varminter, that does not take anything away from the accomplishment in any way. Hell, you get a kill at ranges past 2000 yards once every 30 rounds and you will be doing REALLY good work.
Anyway, my point is, I would really feel bad if you turned in your award over this. This winner, weither on the up and up or not should not take anything away from your award and as someone trying to achieve what you have already done, it would be a sad day for your fellow long range hunters to give up that award, even as a protest.
Alot of guys here on LRH were intimately attached to your development of the MOAGs and were with you all the way on your quest for the grand slam and when you won the LSY award, alot of guys on here got alot out of that because they had followed your progress along with GG and 7mm as well.
Don;t give it up please. Suggest they run a detailed article on the next winners or something like that but don't give up your award on account of this, it would be a shame to see a friend do this.
Just my opinion, take it for what you will, I did not mean to start us down this path with this topic.
Have a good one my friend and keep that award on your wall, We are all proud of your accomplishments and want you to keep what you worked hard for and invested alot of time and money into achieving.
Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.
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In protest I am sending the V.H.A. back the Plaque/trophy they gave me last year, it has no legitimacy if this kind of crap is allowed without question
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Hey, if you send it back, does that mean they will award it to the runner up?! That would be great because I've hated those infernal 93 yards I was shy for a long time now!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
+1 with what Kirby said. A lot of us vicariously won that award along with you, or at least hoped we could. So please, for all our sakes hang on to it and continue to stretch the envelope.
The odds are slim but I have no doubt he made the shot. If there is lead in the air there will always be a 1 in something chance.
In my short shooting career I have made some pretty impossible shots only because I was willing to try. No skill from me was involved. My most improbable shots were all made with the 22LR and my 6" 357 magnum. How about shooting bird from the air over water (ocean) at over 300 yards from the hip with a pistol shooting in double action. 3 shots and the seabird was downed. I have rolled sea birds on the horizon walking them in with the old 10/22.
Another shot well in excess of a half mile on a running coyote. Made him yip and rolled him over but he kept on going over the horizon. As a much younger kid with my Daisy pellet gun I killed a bird I couldn't even see. I just shot into a big myrtle tree once to scare out a blue jay I could hear in there. 50 yards from the hip. He fell out dead shot centered in the chest. All my extreme odd shots were witnessed.
My father in law claims he witnessed 1 mile aimed shot on a pigeon that was silhouetted. They measured the distance with his odometer of his ford. The rifle was a 4 power scoped 22LR. 1 shot.
I once drove up on some guys out in our local sand dunes that were banging away with their hunting rifles at some water filled milk jugs they had placed out at a paced off 500 yards. After watching them for a while I asked If I could take a crack at them. The said sure, "lots of luck," as they had not hit any of them. They really scoffed when I drew out my trusty 686 and laid it over the corner of one of their pickups. I put the tip of the front blade on the center of one of the jugs and the rear sight was centered at the end of the barrel ribbing where the barrel is just starting to slope up to the front sight. 1 shot…… big pause....... pop. One jug springs a leak right in the center of it. Yes, it was the one I called out before the shot. I blew the smoke off my barrel and said I would save the rest for them. The look on their faces was priceless.
You can call me full of it and it doesn't matter, as I know what I did and my witnesses will tell you the same thing. $hit happens and if enough shots are taken it CAN happen. I also realize I could go many lifetimes of shooting every day and never repeat any of these shots. I say give the guy a break. It could have happened.
__________________ Some kids want to be a fireman or a doctor to help people. I wanted to be a gunsmith.