Originally Posted by Scrubbit
Hi Jeff. Yes, I think the 210 target VLD was below expansion velocity on a vitals shot. I think the spine shot would have fragmented regardless unless I used something like an Interbond or Accubond, and they wouldn't have expanded on vitals at all either. I read your thread on the 215 and would like to get a box to try out, maybe even the 230s. I have the 210 hunting VLDs, and the 215 and 230 hybrids on order, but they're almost impossible to get here in Canada. Backordered for around a year. Has anyone had stability problems with the 230s out of a 1 in 10 twist (26 in barrel)? Final question, if my target VLDs won't expand at lower velocities, how much more will I get out of the hunting version? Am basically looking no lower than 1500 fps (1000 ft lbs of energy) at 1000m, and that would be stretching it.
Scrubbit, what was your muzzle velocity with the 210 Target? Reading your post surprises me as it reminded me of the elk we took in the 800 yard range with the 210 Hunting VLD's. At 800, and some beyond, we always got complete pass throughs and exit holes over 1 1/4". The MV of my 300 win with 210 HVLD's is 2990 fps.
We have been shooting the 230 OTM Hybrid from my sons 300 win with a 28" barrel and a 1 in 10 twist for a few years now. Load work up and accuracy was easy with H-1000. We have shot numerous elk with them. One as close as 180 yards and always got complete pass throughs with nice large exits. If I was to shoot a moose with a 30 cal and the possibility of a shot past 500 was there the 230 OTM would be my choice. We get 2775 fps with this bullet from a 28".
Here are a few of our results with the 230 OTM from a 300 win.
Berger 230 and 300 OTM Hybrid terminal results
As far as your question of how much lower the hunting 210 will expand than the 210 Target. Well that has so many variables I truly cant say. But I can tell you from my extensive experiences with the 210 Hunting bullet that I got good exits on elk at 1000 with muzzle velocities between 2990 and 3120.
It is a fact that no bullet works flawlessly at all distances and all the time. I have had my share of failures, and been there to watch, then track elk for miles shot with a solid non expanding bullet. The bottom line is every shot is different. Impact velocity, shot angle, meat then bone, no bone, all bone, you name it. If all shots were exactly the same we would have one bullet perfected and all be using it. In the end it is our responsibility to choose the bullet that will work best for us, know how it works and use it to our best advantage. For me that is a very expandable bullet that will work the best at long range. I am a long range hunter and I chose Bergers for their supreme accuracy, higher BC's and heavy offerings per caliber. I will knock on wood here, but since I started using Bergers years ago we have yet to track one animal. Could it happen tomorrow, hell yes, but it hasn't yet and there has been hundreds of kills with them. So we can pick apart anything if we like. Bottom line is none of us like the looks of that bullet that didn't expand. But you were able to put 2 of them in the Bull and you didn't track him. So lets give accuracy and your shooting skill some credit.