Montana Rifle Company Actions

[Frankie_2_Times]

Anyone have an opinion on the actions and barrelled actions produced by Montana Rifle Company. I found an interesting used rifle built on this action. Thanks.

[demarpaint]

You will get a lot of mixed reviews re: their actions, some like them others feel they are lacking quality and need work. I have a barreled action of theirs and feel the overall quailty is pretty good. If you do a search on this site you will find a lot of good information.
Hope this helps,
Frank D

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...reads.php?Cat=

[Fiftydriver]

For a general use big game stalking rifle they work very well. For the type of consistancy we want on LRH, I would not recommend them. Not that they will not perform well, just on average, there are much better choices for extreme accuracy or long range shooting potential.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

[DougD]

I used to own a Montana Rifle Co. rifle in .338 Win Mag. In late 2004, I ordered a stainless steel barrelled action with lugs lapped and action squared and trued. This was going to be THE big game rifle I intended to use for the rest of my life. I took delivery of the rifle in early 2005. I used the rifle for the 2005 Elk and Bear seasons in Colorado.

In addition to growing up on a working ranch and shooting rifles since I was about 5 years old, I am a SWAT Officer and NRA Precision Rifle Instructor. I am not the best rifleman in the world but I do know a little bit about firearms.

Here is the letter I wrote to the Montana Rifle Company regarding my rifle and the problems associated with it.

Dear Mr. Frost and Montana Rifle Company:

I am writing in reference to the enclosed rifle which I purchased last year. Thank you for speaking with me on the telephone last week. I was surprised that my cell phone worked in the San Juan Mountains of Colorado. Please see the enclosed photos of the elk that I took using your rifle. This was my first elk hunt and it took me a full year to prepare for it by saving money, buying the correct gear, and acquiring a proper rifle for true big game. After receiving the barreled action, I had it placed in an Accurate Innovations stock by my gunsmith but I waited for a substantial time before shooting the rifle. I had received the rifle faster than I expected and my elk hunt was still a long time coming. With ammunition costing approximately $30 per box, I decided to wait until my hunt got closer before starting the break in process and my practice sessions.

As we discussed on the telephone, I have some problems and concerns with this rifle:

· The bolt does not always correctly engage the top round in the magazine. Sometimes the bolt simply slides over the top of the cartridge in the magazine. Other times the bolt pushes the cartridge into the chamber but the claw extractor does not “grasp” the case. This occurs approx 10% of the time so it is not a problem that always presents itself. However, when it does occur, I have noticed that it presents a very dangerous situation: Without cautious observation, and because of past failures to feed, the shooter might believe that the bolt did not engage the top cartridge in the magazine and, in order to remedy the problem, he would simply cycle the bolt again. Because the bolt usually does engage the next round in the magazine, it is easy to force the tip of a bullet into the primer of the cartridge that is already sitting in the chamber. This could prove to be disastrous.

This very situation occurred with me on several occasions while breaking in the barrel and it also occurred on the day that I took my elk. My first shot dropped the elk but he was still moving and it appeared that he was about to stand again. I knew that I needed to take a follow up shot. When I cycled the bolt, it pushed the round into the chamber but did not properly engage the cartridge. I had to open the bolt and tilt the muzzle up so that the cartridge would fall out of the chamber. I placed the round back in the magazine and rechambered it. You can imagine my stress at having to work through a problem such as this with a wounded elk on the ground. I cannot even begin to imagine what would have happened if the unsecured round had been made to fire by another oncoming cartridge.

· The action and bolt movement sometimes “binds” and is hard to open; especially after firing the rifle. It is also hard to close the bolt at least for the first half inch of travel. I have noticed that I sometimes have to be almost violent with the bolt to get it to open and cycle correctly. While I understand that a bolt action rifle is meant to be worked vigorously, this bolt is often difficult to cycle, especially for a hunting rifle. I have observed that the bolt must be moved in near perfect alignment for it to cycle smoothly. There seems to be no “forgiveness” in the bolt travel. For smooth cycling the shooter must be cautious not to place any lateral pressure on the bolt; something that may be difficult to do in a hunting situation. The first rifle that I ever owned was a K98 Mauser that I bought when I was 18 years old. Since then, I have owned and shot several other Mausers, a Ruger M77, many Remington 700’s (both hunting and tactical rifles), and a CZ550. I am very familiar with the variations of “slickness” that one finds in bolt action rifles. To make sure that I wasn’t being unfair about the rifle, I asked a colleague of mine, who is a highly trained shooter and who is extremely knowledgeable about bolt action rifles, to cycle the action and to give me his opinion. I did not tell him anything about my thoughts, feelings, or problems with the rifle before allowing him to cycle the action. My coworker was very surprised at the difficulty he encountered when trying to cycle the action. He cycled the bolt several more times and then said, “How much did you pay for this rifle? I think any off-the-shelf Remington 700 is smoother than this! A custom rifle shouldn’t feel this rough.”

· Magazine capacity: I am able to load only three (3) rounds in the magazine from the top. In order to carry four rounds in the rifle, I have to load one round in the chamber, open the magazine from the bottom, and “top off” by placing another round in the magazine and then closing the floor plate over it. However, I have experienced many feeding problems when doing this and so experience has taught me that for the best possible reliability, it is best to load three cartridges from the top of the magazine and to chamber one of them. This means I only have two extra rounds in the magazine when hunting. While I would like to think of myself as a professional and cautious shooter, I would love to have three extra rounds instead of only two.

· Accuracy: I have spent literally hundreds of dollars trying to find a commercially manufactured bullet/cartridge that will shoot accurately through this rifle. I broke in the barrel via the traditional firing and cleaning method. I was very cautious about the break-in procedure since this rifle was literally a once-in-a-lifetime investment for me. I used Remington Core-Lokt ammo for the break-in procedure and noted that the best it would shoot was approx 4” at 100 yards. After the break-in procedure was complete, I tried various loads from Federal to include their “high-tech” 225 grain Nosler Accubond load. Even this round proved to be inconsistent. In fact, the Remington Core-Lokt rounds shot more accurately. I checked the action screws and found them to be snug but not tight. Upon the advice of my gunsmith, I placed medium strength Lock-Tite on them and then tightened them as hard as I could. (Please note that I messed up the slots on the screws even though I used my Brownells screwdriver. I probably need to change those screws to Allen heads instead of slotted heads.) I then tried some more commercial loads with varying degrees of success. So far, the most accurate round I have found for this rifle is the Winchester 200 grain Ballistic Silvertip. It’s ironic for me that this round works best because this is also my duty round in my SWAT rifle, albeit a different caliber. I freely admit that I am not accustomed to shooting such a powerful rifle. I normally shoot .223 and .308 rifles for duty, competitions, and hunting. Some of the inaccuracy was surely my own fault. However, when I saw consistent inaccuracy from certain loads and consistent improvements in accuracy with other loads, I knew that it wasn’t all my fault.

As you can see, I have sent the complete rifle along with my scope. I did not clean the rifle after returning from Colorado because I wanted your staff to be able to see the rifle in its exact hunting condition. This is what the rifle looks like after being carried all over the San Juan National Forest in temperatures ranging from 20 to 65 degrees. The barrel has had 19 rounds fired through it since its last cleaning . This includes my final practice session and the rounds that I fired when I took the elk in Colorado. I bought this rifle with the hope that it would serve for hunting truly big game. I might use it in Alaska someday. I intend to save money for the next 3 or 4 years to go there. Hopefully this will still be the rifle that takes me there.

I humbly and respectfully ask that Montana Rifle Company please look my rifle over and address the concerns that I have listed above. Please feel free to fire the weapon as much as necessary. Please give me an honest assessment. If I am in the wrong, please tell me so and explain why. If I am correct in my concerns please let me know what we can do to correct them so that I can someday hunt moose and bear in Alaska with a truly reliable, controlled-feed, big game rifle.

I waited several weeks and then called them to check on the status of my rifle. They still had not looked at it and stated that they would get on it and call me back in a few days. Two weeks later, I still had not received any call so I called them back. They told me that their gunsmith had looked it over and that the only thing he could find wrong was that the bedding was not done correctly. He claimed that he never got it to malfunction as I stated and said there was no reason why it should be inaccurate. When I asked them how it shot for them, there was a long pause on the phone followed by, "Uh...we didn't actually shoot it." They admitted they did not shoot it and that the gunsmith had only just removed the action from the stock and "looked it over."

I told them to ship the rifle back to me so I could sell it. They asked me if I was serious about this and I informed them that I could not trust the rifle for big game hunting or serious accuracy at long distances. I told them, "I'm not trying to be rude or get out of line with you here but you haven't addressed any of the issues that I brought to your attention both on the phone and in writing. Your gunsmith says there's nothing wrong with the rifle but I respectfully disagree. Just send the rifle back to me and I will sell it so I can buy something else." They asked me not to do this and to give them another chance. They said they would examine the rifle as I had asked them and call me back ASAP.

More time passes....no word....no call.....no letter.....no rifle....

I called Montana Rifle Company back and the owner of the company happened to answer the phone. It was difficult but I remained polite and told him the whole story. It turned out that he had no idea any of this was going on. He said that it would be taken care of. A few days later, my rifle arrived with a note stating the following: (reproduced to the best of my recollection)

1) Inaccuracy may be from inconsistent bedding at the barrel just forward of the recoil lug (Note For Reader: This statement did not go over well with my gunsmith who is a full-time smith, making his living at building custom tactical rifles and hunting rifles for clients who hunt in Africa and Alaska.)

2) We use a more powerful firing pin spring than other manufacturers to ensure proper ignition of primers. This also makes it somewhat harder to open the bolt. This may be the "binding" you described.

3) Even though our action is based on the Model 70 controlled feed action, our extractor is designed to snap over and grasp any cartridge in the chamber. We were unable to make your rifle duplicate the problems you described. However, we have recontoured your extractor so that it will slide over head of the cartridge easier and believe this will solve the problems you described.

4) Feeding - We could find no reason why you would be experiencing the feeding problems you described. Our gunsmith lapped the action a little more.

We hope the above explanation satisifies the complaints you had about your rifle and blah blah blah...

I traded the rifle for a Remington 700. The guy I traded it to was looking for a rifle he could shoot deer with at 200 to 300 yards. For that purpose, the Montana rifle was perfect. For Elk hunting at 600 yards and bear hunting at any distance, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

After the lengthy explanation provided here, I hope everyone understands why I will never buy another Montana Rifle Co. product again. Hope this helps you in your decision.

Doug

[victor]

Ouch!

I feel your pain Doug. I had a similar experience with Weatherby Ultralightweigth in .300Wby (Atascadero Era).

Fired rounds would not extract reliably half the time. Admittedly some of my rounds were a little hot. So just tilting the rifle would not extract the shell. You had to have cleaning rod available. Insert from muzzle end and push the fired case out of the chamber. Unless you carry a cleaning rod into the field with you, your done once you get a failed extraction scenario. I might mention that I used to own a Japaneese made Wby that you could take an hammer to the bolt and it would always extract.
To make a long story short, I had to jump thru all the usual hoops to get it serviced. Take it to local Wby authorized dealer (2 months time lost), nothing fixed. Well did you fire a round and try to extract the round? Dealers response "Well I don't have the facilities to shoot a caliber that big" After no fix from authorized dealer, then I qualified to send the rifle back to Wby. Wby claimed nothing was wrong but they lapped the chamber and not much else. Rifle extracts better, after getting it back, but extractor still pops off of a hot expanded case. I just have to be careful and not load a case as hot as I used to and not reload it as often.
The real problem was the pivot point on the extractor is not in the proper location, which I pointed out. But they never fixed that. I just gave up.

I guess now I will never buy another Weatherby or Montana rifle.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Companies that do not satisfy their customers should be satisfied when they go out of business.

Regards,
Vic

[Shawn Carlock]

Doug,

I come from the same back ground as you and am now a full time gunsmith / tactical trainer. I have a LH ss Montana action. I have worked with a half a dozen or so and have nothing good to say about them what so ever. I don't even have time to list the problems I have encountered with them. Your experience is not an uncommon one. They had some great ideas but the execution is poor.

Shawn

[traks44]

My current project...

.338 Lapua, montana action
-30in #8 contour barrel
-Viaz muzzle brake
-Mcmillian A-5 stock(forest green, white, black marbling)
-Jewell trigger
-Nighforce 12-42X56MM Benchrest model
-pretty sure I will use 20MOA bases

I will write a full review when the gun is finished including groups, problems etc etc.....

Yall have me scared to pull the trigger..... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Oh, plans for this gun include lots of LRH. I got some sweet spots and I hope to be able to share pics [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]