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Making decision on new gun

 
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2013, 11:40 AM
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Re: Making decision on new gun

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Originally Posted by dragman View Post
I am getting a new toy later this week and I am torn on the caliber to stick with. Here are my choices and my thoughts looking for any input or info from others to help:

300WSM:
Very comfortable with this caliber easy to load and make shoot and very reasonable barrel life

7SAUM:
Not the easiest caliber to load for people say (guessing because throats always moving. Bad barrel life but awesome ballistics

7WSM:
I am reasonably comfortable with this caliber as well really good ballistics but suffers from bad barrel life too

Now I shoot a lot and this gun will be mainly shot at range and ground hogs and make the occational trip to a long range match, But I want to take it for whitetail too if I get a chance to hunt the spot I was promised I will have 1500 yards.
If you want a 1500 yd deer rifle, IMO none of the above qualify. If you can launch a 180 hybrid @3000 fps out of the 7's, you will get to about 1000 yds with 1800 fps of velocity for bullet opening. At 1500 yds you are going to be about 1300 fps, just above transonic speed. If you want a 1500 yd 7mm deer rifle you need to go to a 7 RUM and even that will come up a little short. If you want barrel life, you're going to have to sacrifice range. If you want range, you're going to have to sacrifice barrel life, especially in a 7mm. If you want barrel life and range, get a 338 EDGE.
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  #16  
Old 07-18-2013, 11:48 AM
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Re: Making decision on new gun

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Originally Posted by JARHEAD1371 View Post
I don't see how the 300 WSM could push the 190's to 3200 fps, even with a 30" barrel, or have a noticably longer barrel life over the SAUM.
I am getting 3200 fps with 180 out of my 300 WSM with RL17 in a 24" barrel, If i went to a 30" barrel I think I could get 3200 with 190, maybe a little more.

As for barrel life a 308 cal is going to get better life than a 284 if you're running them at the same pressures with the same amount of powder. The SAUM has slightly less capacity than the WSM but in the long run the WSM should last longer all else being equal.
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  #17  
Old 07-18-2013, 01:19 PM
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Re: Making decision on new gun

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
MudRunner, what are your references that a 7 STW will last 1500-2000 rounds? I have burned out a 7RM in a little over a 1000 rounds and guys are burning out 7 RUMs in about 500 and the STW is right in bweteen. So if this guy goes with a 7 STW and burns it out in 800 ronds, are you going to pay for a rebarrel? I think you should. I think it's mis-leading and irresponsible to be saying things like this which you do often. You say you've got 1500 rounds through yours and it's still shooting good. Good for you. That is far above normal round count for a 7 STW. There is no way that a 7 STW is going to get longer barrel life than a 7 SAUM which has less case capacity, a sharper shoulder and longer neck. No Way!

So if you're going to continue to spread this misinformation you need to be offering a guarantee to rebarrel for the guys who listen to you and burn their barrels out much quicker than you're telling them.
My gunsmith and others I know who have and do own them, that are very reputable and reliable sources. I don't associate with liars, and they have never told stories to me...Therefore, I take them at their word.

I never said a round count on my rifle...I said I have had mine for 11 years, and shot it hot and cold, and gotten the barrel very warm, and it is still shoots aces. If I had to guess, I'm probably somewhere in the 500-750 round mark on mine, as for the first 2/3 of its life, it shot factory loads, and as we know, those can get quite pricey.

Now, can we please move on without screwing up this guy's thread, too....
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Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The 284 is to the STW what a tricycle is to a Ninja.
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  #18  
Old 07-18-2013, 02:23 PM
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Re: Making decision on new gun

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Originally Posted by MudRunner2005 View Post
My gunsmith and others I know who have and do own them, that are very reputable and reliable sources. I don't associate with liars, and they have never told stories to me...Therefore, I take them at their word.

I never said a round count on my rifle...I said I have had mine for 11 years, and shot it hot and cold, and gotten the barrel very warm, and it is still shoots aces. If I had to guess, I'm probably somewhere in the 500-750 round mark on mine, as for the first 2/3 of its life, it shot factory loads, and as we know, those can get quite pricey.

Now, can we please move on without screwing up this guy's thread, too....
I thought I read in another thread that you had 1500 rounds through your STW. Maybe I was mistaken. In any case, to tell someone that they should expect to get 1500-2000 out of an overbore cartridge like an 7 STW is way over the top IMO.

I don't know your gunsmith or what he said, so I am certainly not going to call him a liar. If he did say he was getting that kind of round count from a 7 STW, then I suspect he was running heavy bullets with mild loads of slow powder. I also have to wonder what accuracy level he considers a threshold for re-barreling. 1 MOA? 1 1/2MOA? This being a long range hunting site, most guys here are looking for 1/2 MOA or less accuracy from short to mid range and close to that to 1000 yds. Once your rifle starts shooting .75 MOA short to mid range, IMO it's time for a new barrel if you want to reliably hit a deer size target @ 1000 yds.

Also, shooting overbore rifles hot is not a good idea if you care anything about barrel life. If you want to shoot your rifles hot, that's good for you. But I would never imply that will not have an effect on barrel life and accuracy. Besides, in long range hunting it's ALL about the cold bore shot. Heat and pressure eat rifle throats up. That's a fact.

So, like I said, if anyone is going to assure someone else that they are going to "X" amount of rounds through a barrel, especially an overbore barrel, they should be willing to pay the costs if it doesn't happen.
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  #19  
Old 07-18-2013, 02:40 PM
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Re: Making decision on new gun

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
I thought I read in another thread that you had 1500 rounds through your STW. Maybe I was mistaken. In any case, to tell someone that they should expect to get 1500-2000 out of an overbore cartridge like an 7 STW is way over the top IMO.

I don't know your gunsmith or what he said, so I am certainly not going to call him a liar. If he did say he was getting that kind of round count from a 7 STW, then I suspect he was running heavy bullets with mild loads of slow powder. I also have to wonder what accuracy level he considers a threshold for re-barreling. 1 MOA? 1 1/2MOA? This being a long range hunting site, most guys here are looking for 1/2 MOA or less accuracy from short to mid range and close to that to 1000 yds. Once your rifle starts shooting .75 MOA short to mid range, IMO it's time for a new barrel if you want to reliably hit a deer size target @ 1000 yds.

Also, shooting overbore rifles hot is not a good idea if you care anything about barrel life. If you want to shoot your rifles hot, that's good for you. But I would never imply that will not have an effect on barrel life and accuracy. Besides, in long range hunting it's ALL about the cold bore shot. Heat and pressure eat rifle throats up. That's a fact.

So, like I said, if anyone is going to assure someone else that they are going to "X" amount of rounds through a barrel, especially an overbore barrel, they should be willing to pay the costs if it doesn't happen.
No, we've talked about 1,500 yards.....But I've never mentioned a round count on my barrel, until today. I've mentioned round counts on my .308's before. Might have said 1,500 rounds for a 7Mag before, but can't remember...

I wish I knew what my round count was for my 7mm STW....When I was younger my life went 90-nothin, so I never kept track of things like that. The older I have gotten, the more meticulous and slower-paced I have become. Now I keep track of that stuff.

In all honesty, I do run a moderate load of H1000, with the big heavy 180's in mine...I only run around 70gr of powder, maybe a little more. I'm only pushing about 2,900 fps MV with my current load, but damn is it accurate... So, hopefully that is going to improve my round count. Especially since I have always shot 160gr or higher through it. Maybe I can get 1,500-2000. I have talked with several guys who had them that got damn close to 2,000. And heard my smith talk about a customer of his that got over 2,000, but the throat was nice & crispy (which, I can believe), but he said the guy said he only noticed it go from a 1/2 MOA to a 1MOA rifle, which is when he took it to him for a barrel swap. This is just a second-hand story, but my smith isn't known to exaggerate. Granted, the guy who owned the rifle might have been fudging his numbers a little bit...Which, there's no way to ever tell that.

Yeah, I shot it hot when I was younger and still kinda stupid and reckless. We've all been young and thought we knew it all.

I know I'm between 500-750 and still shooting lights out...So, until I really notice any kind of difference, I'll assume I'm at 500, and go from there with my round count, just so I can see how close to 1,500 I can get.

True, alot of guys shoot the 140's and shoot them REALLY fast, which is known to burn out a barrel just as bad as shooting one hot. And it makes perfect sense why they don't get any kind of barrel life. I would be utterly shocked if they got 1,000 rounds shooting a 140 @ 3,400+ MV.
__________________
"I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many guns..." - Bob Lee Swagger

"Give me a minute...I'm good. Give me an hour...I'm great. Give me 6 months...And I'm unbeatable." - Col. Hannibal Smith

Ignore everything I say, because I have a reading comprehension and memory problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The 284 is to the STW what a tricycle is to a Ninja.
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  #20  
Old 07-18-2013, 03:59 PM
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Re: Making decision on new gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
I am getting 3200 fps with 180 out of my 300 WSM with RL17 in a 24" barrel, If i went to a 30" barrel I think I could get 3200 with 190, maybe a little more.

As for barrel life a 308 cal is going to get better life than a 284 if you're running them at the same pressures with the same amount of powder. The SAUM has slightly less capacity than the WSM but in the long run the WSM should last longer all else being equal.
I have two other 300WSM's :
one shoots 190's at 3225fps
other shoots 215's at 3023fps
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  #21  
Old 07-18-2013, 06:28 PM
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Re: Making decision on new gun

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Originally Posted by dragman View Post
I have two other 300WSM's :
one shoots 190's at 3225fps
other shoots 215's at 3023fps
If you can push 215's to over 3000 fps, you aren't going to gain anything by pushing 7mm 180's the same velocity since the 215's have a better BC than the 180's and you will get better barrel life.

Seems like a no brainer to me.
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