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Long range elk "mistake"

 
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  #85  
Old 11-07-2011, 09:44 AM
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Re: Long range elk "mistake"

Buffalobob wasn't berating Rich IMO. He was simply making a valid point that there is a difference between facts and beliefs or assumptions.

We don't know what the bullet did because we don't have the bullet or the elk. Had any of us been there spotting, we still wouldn't know for sure unless we recovered the elk.

We do know that he was hit because there was blood. We could make inferences about lungs etc depending on the color of the blood, froth, etc.

Anything more than that is an assumption or a SWAG at best.

As for the guys on TV.... most aren't that good and they do lots of editing.

-- richard
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  #86  
Old 11-07-2011, 09:54 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Re: Long range elk "mistake"

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkaholic View Post
You are spot on! Anybody who says otherwise has never recovered one the next day. I have seen animals here in Id. that were recovered the same evening, gutted, and not gotten off the ground . (If you do not split the hide down the back off the neck to the shoulders, the elk will sour there EVERY time even in freezing temperatures by the next morning) The cases you mentioned ARE NOT extenuating circumstances! When I first started hunting here in Id. after moving here from Mi. some 36 years ago, I made that mistake myself and have seen several other cases of it since. You can get away with it on a deer in cold weather, but not an elk!
Rich, we don't even mess around anymore with the heat. We get the skin off of everything immediately. I don't gut any animal anymore. We external-quarter every animal we get (antelope to elk). I can external quarter an animal faster than I can gut and quarter the same animal with no need to touch a bacteria-laden gut and transfer it to the meat. I believe that leaving the hide on animals that have been rutting, or approaching the rut imparts a crappy flavor to the meat, and there is no way it can be good for the meat in any weather. I carry those insemination sleeves that dairymen use, I wear those while I'm quartering out the animal to keep my hands clean and warm, and at shoulder length, the loins and back-straps fit perfectly inside them to keep them clean for the pack-out.

Now a word on the "pro's" on TV. Some of these guys are spoon-fed premium properties, and they have the ability of editing out the "oopses". Since humans are not machines, every human is prone to a mistake, and you better believe those guys have had their share of mistakes that never made it to camera. If they did, then they would lose some credibility in their field. Also I've known more than a few "outdoor TV" guys in my time, and all of them are willing to push the envelope in some regard to capture the best footage, many times at the expense of common sense.
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  #87  
Old 11-07-2011, 10:12 AM
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Re: Long range elk "mistake"

Quote:
He didn't state it as a fact.
With all sincerity, I appreciate your making that post because I hold my honesty and truthfulness very dear and to deliberately mis-characterize what another person has posted is a dishonest act. For that and that alone I apologize. I should have gone back and re-read his original post before typing my own

As far as berating him, he deserves it, but not for losing the animal because I have done that myself.
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  #88  
Old 11-07-2011, 11:34 AM
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Location: Northern Id.
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Re: Long range elk "mistake"

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMMERHAND View Post
Rich, we don't even mess around anymore with the heat. We get the skin off of everything immediately. I don't gut any animal anymore. We external-quarter every animal we get (antelope to elk). I can external quarter an animal faster than I can gut and quarter the same animal with no need to touch a bacteria-laden gut and transfer it to the meat. I believe that leaving the hide on animals that have been rutting, or approaching the rut imparts a crappy flavor to the meat, and there is no way it can be good for the meat in any weather. I carry those insemination sleeves that dairymen use, I wear those while I'm quartering out the animal to keep my hands clean and warm, and at shoulder length, the loins and back-straps fit perfectly inside them to keep them clean for the pack-out.

Now a word on the "pro's" on TV. Some of these guys are spoon-fed premium properties, and they have the ability of editing out the "oopses". Since humans are not machines, every human is prone to a mistake, and you better believe those guys have had their share of mistakes that never made it to camera. If they did, then they would lose some credibility in their field. Also I've known more than a few "outdoor TV" guys in my time, and all of them are willing to push the envelope in some regard to capture the best footage, many times at the expense of common sense.
If I can't get the meat skinned the same evening, I always try to get the carcass elevated with some limbs etc. as well as split the hide from the brisket clear up the neck and then down the back of the neck past the shoulders. The hide and fur is the heaviest there and insulates the most. I truly have seen them sour there overnight, more than once, even after being gutted and elevated. I've seen the rear portions actually frozen and the shoulder area steaming when the hide was removed....Rich
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  #89  
Old 11-07-2011, 11:37 AM
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Re: Long range elk "mistake"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rscott5028 View Post
Buffalobob wasn't berating Rich IMO. He was simply making a valid point that there is a difference between facts and beliefs or assumptions.
-- richard
Sorry to say, Buffalobob has corrected your opinion, even after having an abundance of time to consider the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
As far as berating him, he deserves it, but not for losing the animal because I have done that myself.
Quite the profound judgment Buffalobob.

Definition of BERATE, transitive verb: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length.

Synonyms for BERATE: baste, bawl out, scold, call down, castigate, chastise, chew out, dress down, flay, hammer, jaw, keelhaul, lambaste (or lambast), lecture, rag, rail (at or against), rant (at), rate, ream (out), rebuke, reprimand, reproach, score, tongue-lash, upbraid
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  #90  
Old 11-07-2011, 12:06 PM
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Location: Allen, TX
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Re: Long range elk "mistake"

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
Sorry to say, Buffalobob has corrected your opinion, even after having an abundance of time to consider the matter.



Quite the profound judgment Buffalobob.

Definition of BERATE, transitive verb: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length.

Synonyms for BERATE: baste, bawl out, scold, call down, castigate, chastise, chew out, dress down, flay, hammer, jaw, keelhaul, lambaste (or lambast), lecture, rag, rail (at or against), rant (at), rate, ream (out), rebuke, reprimand, reproach, score, tongue-lash, upbraid
Are you really sorry? Probably not IMO.

Then again, my opinion's been wrong before.

-- richard
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  #91  
Old 11-07-2011, 12:08 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern Id.
Posts: 3,381
Re: Long range elk "mistake"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
With all sincerity, I appreciate your making that post because I hold my honesty and truthfulness very dear and to deliberately mis-characterize what another person has posted is a dishonest act. For that and that alone I apologize. I should have gone back and re-read his original post before typing my own

As far as berating him, he deserves it, but not for losing the animal because I have done that myself.
Bob.....I don't have a problem with accepting your criticizm for taking a shot that I admitted was wrong! What ruffled my feathers was misquoting what I said which has now been cleared up so what say we bury the hatchet.......Rich
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