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Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

 
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  #15  
Old 05-20-2012, 08:27 AM
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Re: Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

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Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
Very good observation on the sectional density, we've pushed the 130's out to 500 yards and that's right were things are getting sketchy and we've started loading the 140 Berger at 3050's and they are GTG in that range. Interesting this is the 165 start crapping out at the same range, I put a lot more faith in sectional density than energy figures!!!!
I think the 150 Matrix should be a good bullet for hammering elk, I was going to order some but after finding out the 165's stabilized and we put a dozen on elk there just isn't anything else I would put in a 270 for elk unless they wouldn't stabilize. I've found them very easy going to load and to top it of every rifle we have loaded them in has shot them better than anything else, my buddies shoots in the .2's at 2835fps with the 165 and destroys elk!!!
I would push them harder but at 2900 they'll rock an elk
Kudos on that. I think with similar velocities SD is as good a measure as any on penetrating ability, but if you crank it up, say in a 7mm ultra, all bets are off. You may get another 100-200 yards of usable range, but the bullet may get soft on you.
I shot my longest two offhand (no bench or bags) kills over 600 and over 700(yards) with a 7mm ultra using a 140 sierra fb and rl25 with a 215. Didn't gps those shots, and they were most likely farther as I did take other measurements and round down. That rifle was a laser and if the barrel hadn't gone, I'd still be killing with it.
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  #16  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:07 AM
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Re: Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

Big green, thanks for the extra info on the 165 Matrix Hunting VLD's.

I did buy some 165's but thought maybe a bonded bullet, as are the 150's would be the safer bet on a bullet I've never hunted with. Also figured I'd work with the 150's first and see how that went.
I have already loaded a few 150's to try in the 270 and WSM so I'll go ahead and load a few 165's also prior to going to the range both for the 270 Win and WSM and see how that goes.

My one concern about the VLD bullet is with close range. Have you or any of your friends taken any Elk at close range with the 165 VLD's? Does it hold together well enough at close range velocities to do the job?

Well, I best get working on those bullets.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:08 PM
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Re: Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

We took elk from 85 yards to 865 yards last year with the 165 Matrix from either 270 wins or 270 WSM. The closest was a 300 class bull that my buddy caught trying to get out the back door, he hit him high with a heavy quartering angle and crushed three vertebra to pulp but did not exit, the bull was trying to lift his head up so he shot him in neck and that hit destroyed a lot of bone, his neck looked like a grenade went of under the skin. While the bullets did not exit the sectional density carried the bullet well into the elk, I'm not afraid of hitting bone on elk up close with them but you put them behind the shoulder and they are awesome!!
I shot the bull at 865 with my WSM, first bullet caught him a little back and got the liver an the back side of one lung, he took the hit hard and was only able to move a couple stumble steps but I put a second one through his lower shoulder, piled him up! The first bullet opened nice making a perfect wound channel, I really didn't need a second shot, the second bullet went through the heavy lower shoulder bone breaking in nicely and putting a good wound channel through the front of the lungs and exited out the front of the of shoulder, both bullets exited with a 1.5+ exit hole. I would not hesitate on an elk inside 1100 yards with my WSM and the 165 Matrix, at my elevation anyway.

I shot some whitetail doe's at around 200 yards with the WSM to see how they would do and the performance was stellar, first doe's heart was MIA and the second one with a heavy quartering put a 2in hole clean through her, with all bullet exiting.

The sectional density is king on elk IMO, I've shot a pile of elk with a 300 WBY and 165 Barnes but my 270 WSM with a 165 Matrix is much better on elk and at a much longer range!!!
The Matrix bonded 150 would be a solid choice I think for elk, I'd be shooting it if I couldn't stabilize the heavier bullets, fortunately we are at 6000+ft and they shoot from our 1-10 twists very well.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:41 PM
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Re: Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

I've seen many positive reports from qualified Elk hunters & long range shooters like bigngreen, & Broz.
But I've seen just as many horror stories from hunters, & shooters just as qualified.
IMO there is absolutely no reason to chance it with a fragile VLD at your said range. If you are gonna stretch it waaaaay out there, then by all means use the VLD. You can benefit from less wind drift, & more retained energy & repeatable, low velocity expansion. Plus your target rarely knows your there, so you have time to choose your perfect broadside shot.
But at a 0-600 ish yard Elk rifle to me means the critter isn't always broadside, it isn't always standing still, it has a lot better chance of knowing your in the area than at "long range" so for me, there's no way on this earth I'm gonna use a bullet that comes apart. I personally think your logic in being hesitant to use the VLD is very sound, & shows your on the right track.

VLD's have thier place. They are proven performers in dedicated LR rifles, & have the BC to buck the wind, & retain thier energy at long range.

I'm an "oportunist" type spot & stock hunter. I'm not too proud to smoke a bull at 20 yards at a severely quarreling angle, but I like to be able to stretch its legs a bit too. Picking the propper bullet for your hunting style, & intended game is a double edged sword.
I'm in the camp that will give up some range, & BC for a tougher bonded bullet, because of how I hunt. If I were shooting dedicated LR only, & wanted to squeeze every extra yard out of my rifle id be in the Berger camp.
Then again, if I were in the ELR game it'd be a big 338, not my 270WSM or my 300WSM. I have self imposed limits on those rifles due to my opinion of using the propper tool for the task at hand with the bullet I choose to use. BC, SD, Energy, Velocity, & my personally imposed "insurance -or- fudge factor". These personal limitations somewhat restrict my range, but I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that when I pull the trigger, my bullet what it takes to get the job done, & more at the ranges I shoot. I don't have bullet failures. Shooter error is the only thing left to blame.

There is no right or wrong answer here. It's strictly a personal choice based on personal criteria. You define your criteria, & decide what's acceptable terminal performance for said parameters.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:56 PM
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Re: Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

Ok, now I'm confused.
I just hit the submit button, & bigngreen had already commented during my painfully long chicken pecking typing style.... Hmm, go figure
I know you've got a lot of experience with both Matrix, & Berger BnG, & plenty of dead elk to back up any opinion you form into a post, but I'm getting all turnned around here trying to figure out what's what when I reply to a post. guess I'm kind of a re-tread sometimes
Matrix bullets are bonded right? Is thier 150 considered a VLD? Or am I reading half a post talking Matrix, & half a post talking Berger VLD's & being hesitant? Maybe I should go back & re-read the post asking the question about VLD's.... Grrrrrrr.
I'm going back to an Amish phone, & taking a brake from technology.....AGAIN.... I'll check back in at a later date boys.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2012, 02:47 PM
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Re: Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmag View Post
Ok, now I'm confused.
I just hit the submit button, & bigngreen had already commented during my painfully long chicken pecking typing style.... Hmm, go figure
I know you've got a lot of experience with both Matrix, & Berger BnG, & plenty of dead elk to back up any opinion you form into a post, but I'm getting all turnned around here trying to figure out what's what when I reply to a post. guess I'm kind of a re-tread sometimes
Matrix bullets are bonded right? Is thier 150 considered a VLD? Or am I reading half a post talking Matrix, & half a post talking Berger VLD's & being hesitant? Maybe I should go back & re-read the post asking the question about VLD's.... Grrrrrrr.
I'm going back to an Amish phone, & taking a brake from technology.....AGAIN.... I'll check back in at a later date boys.
Haa, Matrix has a full line of bullets, the hunting bullets are a bonded, in the .277 they have a 130, 140 and 150 flat base, they also have a 130 and 150 bonded rebated boat tail. Then you have the 165 and 175 VLD which is not bonded but has so much SD it drives deep and reams a hole, I don't think I could go back to bonded bullets
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2012, 08:22 PM
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Re: Load work for Ruger 270 Win, for Elk

Just get the rifle and see if it likes the Matrix before we all get your head spinning.
If it hates the Matrix. you could just forget the lead and go with a barnes or gmx. You wouldn't have to worry about the thing holding together then. Heck, the few hornady's and sierra's I've gotten from mule deer have all held 60% or better( shot from mag cartridges), so they will do in a 140 or 150 grain too in your 270. Most of my kills have been pass throughs, even in bigger bucks.
I like the sleek match stuff too, but when I want to look through the critter after I've dumped the guts, I don't use those, ever.
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