Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > Long Range Hunting & Shooting

Long Range Hunting & Shooting Nightforce Optics


Reply

Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:09 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: E. TN
Posts: 87
Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

What I'm going to attempt to contribute to LR shooting is to correct our language.

All of us use the name of a wind from 45* or 1:30clock as "half value" when most of us know the sine to get our needed correction is .707.

Imagine the confusion that gives new shooters. Imagine the confusion elementary school kids would have when a teacher asked what is 1/2 + 1/2? -expecting an answer of 1.414!

I learned early on we CALLED it a "half value wind" but actually HAD TO multiply our FV wind data by ~.707~ to get our corection for """"""Half Value"""""".

I don't know where the very first shooting instructor that started teaching us this screwball way got their schoolin, but where I went to grammer school 1/2 is .5 and .5 is 1/2.

Imagine telling a class full of grade school kids who was about to learn fractions for the first time "Class for todays lesson, when I SAY 1/2 you just are supposed to know I REALLY MEAN 3/4. So I better not hear anyone saying 1/2 + 1/2 is 1. Nope the correct answer is 1 & 1/2."

What??? But yet that's what we do & insinuate to new shooters.

Here's an example of a pretty typical wind ref. sheet out of a data book:



So you see on the wind clock that a wind at 45deg. / 1:30clock is called "HALF value." So that sounds really simple & is self explanatory- a real no brainer!

Take our full value wind data for this shot and half it for this 45deg wind. That's simple, quick and easy and TOTALLY WRONG.

We actually take the FV wind data, and multiply it by EXACTLY .707 to get the data for this shot. [.707 is very close to .75 or 3/4, hence my proposed new wind call name below]

So we see that we call this wind one thing, but do the math with another thing and there goes simplicity and K.I.S.S. principles right out the window. Not to mention it needlessly complicates things for the new comer.

Here's what I propose as the new standard in the educational industry for shooting:

A. For the rookie to novice LR shooter:

Wind direction (Degree/clock), Term, Sine
0*, 12clock "No Value" N/A
45*, 1:30clock "3Quarter Val." .707
90*, 3clock "Full Val." N/A


B. For the advanced shooter that can grade wind direction with more precision:

Wind direction (Degree/clock), Term, Sine
0*, 12 clock "No Value" N/A
30*, 1 clock "Half Val." .5
45*, 1:30clock "3/4 Val." .707
60*, 2 clock "7/8 val." .866
90*, 3 clock "Full value" N/A

This way the wind name communicates the required sine and their is no confusion.

If we split hairs no "3/4 value is not EXACTLY .707" and the same for "7/8 Value" these decimal places ares so close that if the shooter can't remember the exact sine, he can multiply full wind data by the direction of the call/term of the wind and it introduce no error noticeable on target as the difference of these decimal places are minuscule on target.

I seriously suggest every LR educational institution take on this new terminology ASAP.

Mod's can we make this a sticky to get the word out??
__________________
-Tres @ WildernessMeans.com

Check my website for articles, training info, etc!

NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes Available.

John 14:6 2TIMothy 3:16
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-18-2011, 08:56 PM
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Danville, PA
Posts: 1,083
Re: Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

WOW !!!

I've been long range hunting for over 20 years and have killed, been part of or helped in taking at least 1000 game animals from woodchucks to bear just here in PA from 300 yards to over 2000 yards. I've never been more confused. I understand wind and how it effects my bullet in theory. I also understand the coriolis effect and spin drift. At least where I hunt we shoot from the tops of mountains across valleys sometimes several valleys and ridges. Usually where we shoot from we are some what protected from the main wind stream by trees or land contour. If I have a 3-5 mph wind from 9-3 where I sit but 400 yards out I'm shooting across the middle of a valley with no trees to block any wind maybe a 7-10 mph wind from 10-4 plus a steep hillside creating a lift or drop then across a ridge and across another valley there is no way to measure the wind. Experience and practice shooting from these types of locations is what makes hits. To know the theory is one thing, but most of the time real world situations are another. I applaud your effort and math but I think you'll confuse more than you'll help.
__________________
Home of the "EXTENDED IMPACT" DVD

www.mcrifles.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-18-2011, 09:18 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 868
Re: Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

Well said Kevin. I know i have a language problem on a missed shot.
mike
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-18-2011, 09:50 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: E. TN
Posts: 87
Re: Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

I get what your saying but it appears you missed what I was saying.

What I wrote has nothing to do with up/down drafts.

It's a accurate means to figure a decent correction for a crosswind at an odd or oblique angle wether your shooting 200 yards or 1200.

What would you have a guy do that perhaps does not the experience you may? Just kind point it "oh about there" at the skyline and pull the trigger? No the less experienced need some solid means of working out the problem.

This I have given him.

I never presented it or inferred it to be a voodoo magical solution for 6 different varying wind bands of 6 different magnitudes at 6 different ranges between the muzzle and target.

Evening fellas.
T
__________________
-Tres @ WildernessMeans.com

Check my website for articles, training info, etc!

NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes Available.

John 14:6 2TIMothy 3:16
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-18-2011, 11:03 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Desert, UT
Posts: 85
Re: Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike33 View Post
Well said Kevin. I know i have a language problem on a missed shot.
mike


I usually call the wind "stupid", with a few other words.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-18-2011, 11:27 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thunder Basin, WY
Posts: 1,788
Re: Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

Tres,

For what it's worth, I agree, and further more appreciate your attempts.

I don't have the mountain/canyon/ridge and valley shooting experience that KC mentions, but I do have alot of flat land experience shooting in the wind, and when shooting small targets in the wind, it's a huge benefit to take all winds into consideration. The "true" head or tail wind hardly ever exists.

Tons of prarie dogs with small caliber low bc bullets taught me that even a 15 degree wind (or 12:30/11:30/5:30/6:30) has a drift value. Ballistic programs give it roughly 25% or 1/4 value.

Folks that don't have a field ballistic program can use a basic small scientific calculator to figure drift and angle corrections, using the numbers you provided. I've done it, I didn't have a ballistic program until recently.

Thanks again.
__________________
Aim small = Miss small
SBruce

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-18-2011, 11:55 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central ND
Posts: 1,021
Re: Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)

interesting read, my question is if it is totally wrong, will it cause you to miss a 1/2moa target at the distance? What is the error?
__________________
"Amazing things can happen when preparation meet opportunity" Richard Schatz


"The will to win, compares little with the will to prepare to win" Donovan Moran

Last edited by blipelt; 03-19-2011 at 12:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Let's all stop doing it wrong! (Wind Call Verbage)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am i doing something wrong? Blacktail Reloading 7 11-24-2011 09:55 AM
What is wrong with the NIB 338 RUM? TheHunt Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 19 11-24-2011 12:00 AM
starter budget cheap wind meter...that still reads wind!?! hmbleservant Long Range Hunting & Shooting 3 06-25-2011 10:43 PM
This looks very wrong to me Bishop Reloading 10 05-29-2011 04:04 PM
Something wrong? tayhot Reloading 25 12-20-2009 02:12 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC