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I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..

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Unread 12-17-2003, 02:24 PM
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I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..

This worked for Dave so I thought I'd give it a try.. I realize he's nice, more popular, and doesn't have the odor I do.. but hey, apparently I can cook!!

OK I am in the same situation as Dave.. but my requirments are different...

I am looking to build a tactical rifle that will take care of shorter range work but on occasion stretch to 800+ yards. A proven tack driver and not real had on the wallet or my shoulder...

I want a rifle that weighs about 12lbs or so..
I am sold on the A5 so that's a for sure, don't need bells and whistles on the stock...

caliber is my big problem.. I was thinking .308 but then I have read and was told about how the .260 out performs the 308 when using the 142/140 gr bullets. I ran the numbers and on paper... yup.. it sure does...

but I have this buddy who is known for saying enough and answers every question but never saying to much...unless you really pry.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] and he mentioned, I'd be looking for more and go with the 6.5/284 since BH is making match ammo ( I can't seem to find it though ) ..

so wadday think...
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Unread 12-17-2003, 03:00 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 66
Re: I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..

WyoWhisper the 308 is a good rd. Its easy to find ammo. And it does not eat up barrels. My friend has an 308 M24 that has about 43,000 rds throw it and is still shooting sub min.

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Unread 12-17-2003, 03:37 PM
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Re: I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..


I was tossing this around a couple of years ago and was in the same quandary, 6.5-284 or (in my case) the 260 Rem. AI. I was reading and calculating and not coming up with much for a decision. Then I read a couple of threads here by Steve Alstadt who works for Prairie Gun Works up in Canada. He has been shooting the 260 AI for a while and winning some of their long range shooting competitions. Check the PGW website.

Long story shorter, I built both the 260 AI and several 6.5-284's in the style that you are looking to do, except that I used the A3 instead of the A5. I happen to like the 260 AI much better for the short/intermediate shooting, especially if it's from the prone position. Now, from a bench with a heavier set-up, I like the 6.5-284 when going to the 1000 yard targets.

I would suggest taking a peek at the 260 AI for what you are describing. Just another opinion.

I forgot to add that I also had a couple of long conversations with the Norma bullet engineer at S.H.O.T. Show. He convinced me to use the 130 gr. Norma VLD Diamond bullets. The only difference is that I remove the moly before loading.


[ 12-17-2003: Message edited by: Crispin Goodall ]
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Unread 12-17-2003, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The rifle range, or archery range or behind the computer in Alaska
Posts: 3,830
Re: I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..

I am curious as to why so many shooters are so quick to axe the 308. It maybee possible for the 6.5-06 to out perform the 308, but never the 260 rem. It may look good on paper, but never in reality. If one bumped up the barrel length to 28" or more than it would give a 308 a run for its money. A 155 palma load, with a 12-14 twist and 26" barrel will perform like this: MV 2900-3000, we will call it 2950 FPS for now. w/a 300 yard zero would be around 268" at 1000 yards (standard conditions) with 1400 FPS remaining and about 700 FPE. 10 MPH drift would be around 86" Typical ballistic calculators will not arrive at this conclusion. This would be a real world senario. You can also purchase 155 palma loads (Federal GMM)or the 155 palma bullets are easy to find for hand loading. Now take the 6.5-06, 26" barrel. This would generate about 2900 FPS with 142 SMK and we get 260" at 1000 yards, 1460 FPS, 670 FPE,77" of 10 MPH drift. Remember, the 6.5-06 will be bigger than the 260 rem. If you go against the 308 at least go with the 6.5-284 or the 6.5-06. Also the 308 will not eat your barrels. So really, of the 3 cases (6.5-06,6.5-284,308) They each have similar ballistic qualities and some will maintain accuracy longer than others. I am sure an attitude like this is why I am not as popular and smell bad too!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] like your comments earlier!

A 260 remington would be a cool round if one was sensitive to recoil. Also a longer barrel would also increase the ballistic performance to match the 308. It just depends on what youre looking for.
Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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Unread 12-17-2003, 05:59 PM
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Re: I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..


That's what I like, passion!

But I don't think that anyone is trying to axe the .308, quickly or otherwise. The .308 will always stand in great stead for the yoeman's work that it does on a daily basis in all of the shooting sports. I have shot a ton of .308 and have a lot of respect for the cartridge and it's accuracy.

I am merely bored with it. I wanted to try something new and different, at least for me. The .260 AI and the 6.5-284 was what I decided on. And I like them both for different reasons. They perform well at the distances that I am capable of shooting.

My search for different cartridges continues and I remain excited while working with as many as I can afford to build. I am not prejudiced in any way, I like them ALL.

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Unread 12-17-2003, 06:43 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Urich, MO
Posts: 838
Re: I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..

One problem we might be overlooking is to fit the 140/142s in a SA mag really cuts back on case capacity, so the 260 might not outperform the 308.
One reason the military hasn't switched to the "magic" 6.5 bore is terminal ballistics.
Dave even told me on the phone that the 6.5 was the poorest performiing on game that he had experienced. He felt the the high twist rate needed for the 142's put too much rpm's and the bullets tended to pencil through.
Food for thought.
BH makes 6.5-284 as a call for availability only, not a cataloged item. They do make awesome 308 ammo. But they don't make any 260 ammo.
Chris Matthews
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Unread 12-17-2003, 08:01 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,369
Re: I need a new rifle wanna help.. part 2 sorta..

I agree the 308 is a rifle everyone should either have or have owned as a learner... tactical shooter types that is.

I have two(2) 308's in the safe and I believe Ric has one around too... but like Ric I feel a need to have something else. I have the 6.5x284 down there too and really like it. (Some difference in terminal effects as Chris mentioned when compared to my standard 308 and the 175s.) I shoot the Lapua Scenar (139 I believe) now instead of the Sierra 142, check them too Ric.
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