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Hunting tags and doe permits

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Unread 08-20-2003, 12:23 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Potter Co. PA
Posts: 135
Re: Hunting tags and doe permits

over 24 deer removed in 4 years with one doe shot? mathmatically, i guess so. however, using that theory, one can calculate the year in which we will completely extinguish the entire deer population in PA. in fact, the game commission should have yearly figures that shows this decrease already in effect.

the issue we need to look at, is deer population per sq mile of woods. fact is, every year, trees are cut down and hunting grounds lost due to human expansion. the decrease in populated woods means less room for deer. either we reduce the numbers of deer as well to keep the sq mi/deer ratio the same, or keep the same rules and let the ratio increase. start draining a lake and see what happens to the fish. yes, its an exaggerated analogy, but the thoery is still the same.

the new antler restrictions bring another aspect in to it. while personally i tried to avoid shooting smaller racked bucks and let plenty walk, theres guys who only needed 3 inches and they were happy. the number of bucks taken has been reduced compared to normal years. that adds more deer in the woods. the game commission says it isnt trophy hunting, yet in the next sentence of the article says its going to lead to bigger and better racked bucks. personally, i think they're full of **** because thats what trophy hunting is all about. yes, i do it by choice during bow season, but thats MY choice to trophy hunt. now that less guys are getting their annual deer as a buck, we're going to deny him the chance to get a deer period by not allowing does to be taken? i like big buck. everyone does, but i also like deer meat in my freezer.

if you're worried about having bigger buck running around, the antler restrictions will take care of that. hell, if we REALLY wanted to do it right, we'd put the whole state at 5 points to one side, with no doe hunting at all. give it 3 or 4 years, and anyone shooting a deer period will be getting 9 and 10 points. we'll all have mounters hanging off the wall. just think how great shooting a 10 point would be. nothing, would it? they tried doing it years back with spikes anyhow, and we ended up with spikes laying dead in the woods from people just not tagging them when accidentally shot. i can handle limiting it to y-racked bucks, but thats it.

in the end, has the population declined? yes, i'm not denying that. because of the antlerless tags, or the means by which you get it? early muzzleloader, unrestricted weapon for juniors and seniors, combined sex firearm season, plus the proposition of crossbows during regular archery almost make it impossible NOT to fill that tag. i remember going out when i was younger and not even seeing a doe all day during doe season. just because you had a tag didnt mean you were going to fill it- however it DID give me the chance to get out in the woods and enjoy the beauty the God has given me the ability to see and respect. tags give people the opportunity to get outdoors and promote the sport. i'm all for that. give them 101 different ways to fill that tag though, and its going to get filled.

theres ways to manage deer and still give people the enjoyment of hunting. putting your tag on a deer will once again be something special, and not just finally connecting on the 31st chance you had this year.

If it were easy, I wouldn't be doing it.
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Unread 08-20-2003, 09:20 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757
Re: Hunting tags and doe permits

George and Mountain Man

I'm responding to this doe situation in referance to Cameron County MOSTLY and the other Northern tier counties which is MOSTLY "all" State Forest land.

We have very rugged and steep mountains and the land mass will always be here without much interferance from those building homes and eliminating land area for the deer.

As was mentioned by MM, he saw the low numbers of deer when he was younger. Many areas are still void of deer from the onslought of to many doe permits issued back then.

I used to hunt near Mansfield and remember how many deer were in the farm country. One family of farmers I hunted with wondered, as of late, what happened to all the deer they once had.

I told them-----do you remember all the doe and button bucks you have been killing in the past several years? They said yes but, there seemed to be plenty of them at the time they were killing them off. They now wish they had not killed so many and being so hogish. The hunting has been terrible the past few years even in that farm area.

Point is, you can't keep killing the doe off and expect to keep and maintain a large, healthy, deer herd.
The food or habitat is there as it always has been in these areas I have mentioned. The only thing the feed plots need now, is deer to eat it.

As I mentioned, there are areas that may need thinned out but NOT to the point the Game commission would lead you to believe.

A one deer per season, in any form of hunting, is the only way to preserve the herd, especially in the Northern tier counties. Maybe just one buck with 6 or more points and NO doe for a few years would help this area out.

The point restriction will help to produce some fine bucks and will enable the large bucks to geneticly pass on their genes. They need numbers of doe to do it though

So, the only point I was making was toward the Northern tier counties of Cameron, elk, lower part of Potter, part of Centre and also part of Clearfield which is MOSTLY State Forest land with very few farms at all.

These areas are VERY low on numbers of deer and a person can hunt on foot all day long and not see a deer.
The ONLY places that have nice numbers of deer are those who have posted their land to hunting, especially doe hunting.

So when you figure the amount of deer a person eliminates by simply killing "one" doe that is pregnant, that person has reduced the herd significantly.
A mature doe will breed every year and produce 2 to 3 offspring. The off spring will produce 2 to 3 deer each in 2 years. Those first 3 mature deer will breed again the following year and produce 2 to 3 the following year.
You can see the numbers keep going and multiplying as each birth of 2 to 3 fawns are dropped. It doubles then triples as each mating season arrives.

Anyway, if you want to preserve the herd in the Northern tier counties for future hunting----DON'T KILL THE DOE.

I have seen what happens to the herd from over kill in the last 42 years in this area.

Later and good hunting to all.
Darryl Cassel
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Unread 08-20-2003, 11:26 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Union Dale, Pa.
Posts: 14
Re: Hunting tags and doe permits

Wouldn't you agree that in most areas, there is less land and food availible to the deer than in the 60's and 70's?
My wife and I have accounted for two deer already this year. Killed one with a Chevy and one with a GMC. Both at close range. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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