What if those boundries between farms and your favorite hunting areas were the "County Line" and the old way was still in effect?
You still couldn't hunt outside the county line unless it was for buck.
You now have a larger area to hunt doe, if your so inclined to do so, even if it's not in your favorite areas.
I was hoping Cameron county wasn't included in "any" doe hunting area and didn't have a season on them at all.
We need to keep what produces the buck as long as we can, in this area.
Most land owners Post their land to doe hunting up here and on those plots you have many deer and nice bucks. There is a good reason for posting and I do my 100 acres.
Most of you don't remember the fine bucks and the amount of deer we had in PA in the 60 and 70s.
Back then you were not allowed to have more then one doe tag and there were not that many issued per county. Most everyone hunted buck ONLY. If you didn't get a buck, you went home happy just from being in the woods in hunting season.
Lots of deer and nice buck back then even in the Mountain regions of the north central part of the State.
Now through the game commisions effort to gain capital (at the expense of the doe) they allow more tags to be bought.
Those who buy them are only shooting themselves in the foot for your future hunting and that of your children and Grandchildren.
I have seen the change in the past 42 years of hunting PA.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>What if those boundries between farms and your favorite hunting areas were the "County Line" and the old way was still in effect?
You still couldn't hunt outside the county line unless it was for buck.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The point I was trying to make is all my favorite hunting spots were and still are in Dauphin County... Now they have Dauphin County split in 3 wmu's.. So depending on which spot I would like to hunt that day IF I hunt for doe I need 3 seperate tags..
Now I will also state that most areas like 2G for instance is a bigger area before if you hunted Cameron county only now you can hunt all the surrounding counties as well with 1 tag which is nice..
I also agree that they shouldnt offer as many doe tags as they are.. But then again if they didnt issue that many deer would eventually be running through towns and eating flower beds right beside your house..
I have nothing against posting land.. If I had land of my own it would be posted.. But if everyone did it and didnt allow people to hunt we would be so overrun by deer it would be unbeliveable..
Lets say this the pgc says we can shoot 973,000 doe since that is the number of doe tags issued this year.. Now lets say they didnt issue any tags for this year or the next 3 years.. If even half of those doe have 1 offspring alot of them would have 2.. next year that would make the pop 1,459,500 deer in 1 year.. And thats not taken in consideration of all the buck that are around plus all the doe they didnt want killed.. Now say that happened 3 years in a row we would be at a pop of 2,919,000 and thats only if 486,500 (half of the 973,000) doe had 1 offspring a year.. Now of course these are only hypothetical numbers my numbers are WAY less then what it would actually be...
Cameron county maybe alot differnent then most I cant say I have never hunted it.. Maybe they should not kill doe in that county alone, but I really dont think the pgc cares about the counties and they are more worried about the total population as a whole..
If the truth be known, it's the Insurance companies and also the State forrest who control and dictate the number of Doe permits issued.
The State Forrest wants to make money from the sale of trees and the Insurance Companies want to have less claims from Moter vehicals and deer colisions. Big pay-offs in Harrisburg to the State representatives have been and still are being made.
Yes, there are counties that need doe thinned out however the Northern tier (Big Mountain areas) counties are not them. Those counties are Cameron, elk and parts of Center and also others up here.
The PA game commision should adapt Ohios regulations and they might just have as big of Bucks as Ohio does.
Year after year Ohio records the largest whitetail in the Country and have a huge deer kill.
Ohio only allows ONE deer to be harvested per hunter.
Either a Doe or Buck and if you get ONE your done hunting. The deer Seasons are one week instead of two and the herd is controled very well. Over 250,000 deer are killed every year
On top of that, you must check the deer in just as PA requires of the Bear.
How in the world does the game commission of PA think they have ANY idea how many deer have been killed. Most hunters don't even send in their kill cards.
It's a bad situation and the counties with a low number of doe are in trouble as per numbers of deer and the amount of bucks being produced.
Up here, we need NO doe hunters at all for about 3 or 4 years to stabilize the herd.
The point resatriction was a good idea and I hope that continues for a long time.
I remember seeing 50 deer at one time walk by me on the first day of the season in the early 60s and 70s and now, your lucky if you see 4 or 5 in that same area.
To many doe permits have been given out.
Lets face it, it don't take too much hunting prowess to kill a doe. The problem with it is, those who do, are killing the button bucks in the process Many times, and this, I'm against.
I guess I'm just an old Buck hunter who likes to see nice bucks and a number of them. I will go home empty handed before I kill a doe no matter what county or unit I hunt in.
I remember those days when I was able to see nice bucks in PA and lots of them and that was before they gave out so many doe permits.
The herd was huge back then.
12 years in a row my hunting buddy and I both killed bucks as short range hunters. After that I got into longrange hunting.
so whats considered proper ratio? so far, i've seen plenty of bucks, and i havent been out looking much. i also dont even have to look to find deer, they're all over. most of us here in potter shot does right along with buck- they all eat the same- and there's still deer running around. if cameron isnt that way, then reduce the number of tags in cameron. well, cant really do that now thanks to the game commission. counties should be controlling their own numbers, but we dont have that ability anymore since the management areas came about. seeing as how they put antler restrictions on now too, that just inclines people to shoot more does. personally, if i dont take a buck with a bow- i dont want one. i'd rather shoot a doe with a rifle- whether it be LR, short range with a handgun or muzzleloader. i have no problems being part of the herd management if i cant get antlers during archery.
everyone has their own opinion, but if you're hunting for meat, sex shouldnt make a difference.
If it were easy, I wouldn't be doing it.
You do make some good points.. I also belive that Insurance Comps have alot to do with it.. State Forrest's I could see as well just never thought of it...
I think the main goal of the pgc on this is this... They want you to go to were the deer are this is why they made the WMU's so big.. Now if it will work or not who know's...
I also like the Antler Restrition's but I have to agree with Mountain Man that is just goin to make more people kill doe.. To be honest I hunt for meat but I also will wait till time is running out before I take a doe with the exception of the new early MuzzleLoading season... I really enjoy hunting with a ML but got sick and tired of hunting in the worst time of the year were its a pain in the ass to keep your powder dry.. Even though they allow just about any type of ML for the ealy season I still prefer my FlintLock just wish they would allow you to take a buck instead of the doe only...
There is really no way to manage deer via statewide or even via counties... From what you say the northern tier has alot less deer then what it did back in the 60's & 70's which is prolly true but the southern parts are truely overrun with huge deer heards.. But I dont think hunting is the cause or at least the whole cause of the problem.. I think most of it has to do with their feeding.. If there isnt enough food to support big heards they will eventually move to where there is better food for them.. If that is true or not im not sure but it makes sense to me anyway... Since you hunt up there and I do NOT what is the food source like in those area's that you mentioned especially in the winter months????
HI. I do remember the 70's it was a grate time for seeing deer. I would be able to scout up and around and catch them grazing in the fields during midday back then. Also back then The Season was broken up into doe and Buck Season. I'm not complaining to bad just resisting change I guess. As always I learn some thing from you. Thanks.
It's the same food plots here now as was here in the 60s and 70s. The deer never moved on their own, they were killed by hunters thanks to the over issuing of doe permits.
Main problem was, the PGC gave out to many doe permits and the hunters, instead of "NOT" buying them, did.
This lowered the herd drastically. Then every year they would still offer the same amount or more, doe tags.
A hunter can't take the attitude that because the Game commision is offering another tag or two, we will buy them.
This is simply a way to raise funds for the game commision (at the expense of the deer) and lower your deer herd for the future of hunting.
Many young people are not going into the big woods (in this area) in the last few years because, they hunt all day or freeze their rear ends off and not see any deer. Thanks again to over killing of the doe in the past several years.
The herd went from large herds to very few deer in a short amount of time like 6 or 7 years.
It was starting to recover a bit and then they tripled the amount of doe tags again in this county just two years ago.
We are starting to see some decent bucks, thanks to the point restriction but, the total herd numbers are way down.
If there are an over abundant amount of deer in your area, then some of the doe should be harvested.
I'm against more then ONE tag to be filled per season though.
I would like to see an either buck or doe option in the deer season in those heavy deer populated areas and then your hunting is finished when you take "one" or the other.
I would also like to see deer check stations (like bear) set up so the game commission knows what the kill is per year. As it is, the PGC is only taking a guess as to what is being killed.
How can they issue ANY doe permits when they don't know what has been killed the season before? Many hunters NEVER send in a kill card.
I relize that you can't eat the horns but, for every doe you kill, you have on that day, killed three deer because that doe is pregnant and as of late, two deer are born to most doe, sometimes three.
Now multiply that per year and you have killed over twenty-four deer in four years had you left that ONE doe live.
I would rather hunt harder (either longrange or short range) for a buck as it's MUCH more satisfying to me and it's harder to bag that buck, as we all know.
Doe hunting for the most part, is like going out in a farmers field and shooting his cow.
I would really like for you guys to be able to see what the herd was in the 60s and 70s.
It could be like that again if just half of the hunters refused to buy the doe permits for about 4 or 5 years.