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# How much wind, is to much?

#15
04-10-2013, 10:36 PM
 Official LRH Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: N. Texas and S. Africa Posts: 8,064
Re: How much wind, is to much?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4xforfun Gotta KINDA disagree on one of your statements...shooting directly into or away from the wind. HUGE mistake. Try shooting a 10 shot string into a 20 mph headwind that may switch from say 5 oclock to 7 oclock...which is pretty much an un noticeable switch....and very common!!! I would rather shoot in a strait cross wind that swithches from 20 to 30 mph....you can at least feel that change and make some alowances for it. The difference in impact points moves TWICE the amount in the slight headwind switch situation. Example...300 Berger at 2800 fps A 10 mph increase in wind velocity and a 9:00 or 3:00 wind yealds an impact switch of 4.4 moa. You should be able to catch at least half of that push (or let off)...we are talking about a 50% increase (or decrease) in wind velocity. A DIRECTION change from 5:00 to 7:00 yealds an impact switch or 8.8 MOA...from 4.4 L to 4.4 right!!! That is an 8.8 MOA difference!!!! Even if your switch is a 5:30 / 6:30 switch the impact numbers don't change that much...you would think that they would change by half, but the change is minamal....I can't do the calcs because my I6 program has a glitch in it.....it shows a 3.7 R moa with a 6:30 wind, and only a 0.8 MOA Left with a 5:30 hold...somthing is amiss with my program. We know that if a 6:30 wind yealds a 3.7 moa movement that a switch in the oppisate direction would yeald the same amount in the oppisaste direction..........For a total of 7.4 MOA difference in a 5:30 / 6:30 situation!! Again...nearly double the movement of the 10 MPH switch at 9:00 or 3:00. Nope, give me big switches and a STRAIT CROSS WIND any day!! And, for those saying "yah, but what about a switch from 8:00 to 10:00. Not that big of a deal...about 1 MOA!! Just my .02, Tod
Neither 5:30 nor 6:30 is 6:00. Neither 11:30 nor 12:30 is 12:00.

If you are shooting directly at 12 or 06:00 the only change you have is a negligible increase or decrease in relative FPS.

In any situation with a steady wind as long as you know your wind velocity and direction you can calculate your correction.

10 shot strings? Why would anyone want to waste that much ammo? We're talking about hunting here not BR shooting. The chances of the wind speed and direction both remaining exactly constant through a 10 shot string where I'm used to shooting is almost nil anyhow.

There are three shots that matter when hunting game. Your first shot and two quick follow ups because that is all you are ever likely to get on a live target.
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Without the First and Second Amendments the rest of The Constitution is Meaningless.
#16
04-10-2013, 10:41 PM
 Gold Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Saratoga Springs, Ut Posts: 512
Re: How much wind, is to much?

The most wind I have shot in was 25-30 MPH out to 960 yards with my .308

I would never try it in a hunting situation thats for sure.

The wind correction was as much as the drop correction. haha .
#17
04-11-2013, 10:26 AM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,246
Re: How much wind, is to much?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by WildRose Neither 5:30 nor 6:30 is 6:00. Neither 11:30 nor 12:30 is 12:00. If you are shooting directly at 12 or 06:00 the only change you have is a negligible increase or decrease in relative FPS. In any situation with a steady wind as long as you know your wind velocity and direction you can calculate your correction. 10 shot strings? Why would anyone want to waste that much ammo? We're talking about hunting here not BR shooting. The chances of the wind speed and direction both remaining exactly constant through a 10 shot string where I'm used to shooting is almost nil anyhow. There are three shots that matter when hunting game. Your first shot and two quick follow ups because that is all you are ever likely to get on a live target.
My point is that I have NEVER seen a wind that does not swtch velocity AND dirction at least a little bit.....and a switch from six to six thirty to five thirty is such a small switch that you would NEVER know it. Untill you miss, that is!! I can't imajin a place on earth, short of a wind tunnel, where the winds don't switch velocity AND direction at least a little. And a switch from 5:30 to 6:30 is a little. Strait cross winds are changing direction a bit, also, but you wont see it on target, because it doesn't move the bullit that much. What gets you there is the push and the let up, which I never even brought up in the headwind/tailwind situation.....that will also move your bullet around a bunch if the wind isn't DIRECTLY 6 or 12 oclock!!....kind of a two-fer!!!

You don't need to shoot 10 shot groups, either....take 1 shaot a min, or every 10 min at a 1000 yard target....do it in your 6:00 / 12:00 wind situation. In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. A 6:00 / 12:00 wind would be IDEAL....velocity changes mean nothing...but this world isn't pefect!!
With the strait cross wind, you need to worry about wind velocity almost exclusivly. A head wind/tailwind, on the other hand , demands you pay atention to the wind velocity, but more importantly, the wind direction...because a tiny switch there will mess up your day!!
#18
04-11-2013, 03:56 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Meridian, Idaho Posts: 1,550
Re: How much wind, is to much?

Sure makes you appreciate the snipers who have to fire a imperfect solution in less than ideal conditions. The fact that once they do fire they are drawing counter fire. Unlike rocks and animals that don't shoot back. Anyway, my point is wow, just wow, and thanks for all the military support and members on here. I was fortunate enough to be a part time member of our Army and although not the same I still wore the uniform proud. I was able to be part of some awesome training that included counter sniper tactics. I was 12B and later became an officer. Part of our SAPPER training allowed us to work with counter sniper tactics which including trying to shoot back. I realized then, like I do now, I was in trouble if a sniper was shooting at me. Wind is the enemy to all and particularly cruel to the unskilled.
#19
04-11-2013, 04:14 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,246
Re: How much wind, is to much?

Yep....The military snipers are "da bomb" ..Pun intended, of course. I live in a town of 1000 and in the next town over, about 1500 people, there are TWO active duty "snipers" from there. I am not sure which branch they are serving in, or what is in the water in that town that it can produce TWO of them!! I can't wait to meet them. I know most of the people in that town, but not those two....younger generation, I guess.
#20
04-11-2013, 04:45 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Meridian, Idaho Posts: 1,550
Re: How much wind, is to much?

Yeah, got a couple of sniper friends. Fun to shoot with. My old sniper instructor lives near me too. Once in a while I run into him out shooting. Since I didn't have a LR rig at the time we never spent any time shooting. He is a neat older gentleman.
#21
04-13-2013, 02:06 AM
 Official LRH Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: N. Texas and S. Africa Posts: 8,064
Re: How much wind, is to much?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4xforfun My point is that I have NEVER seen a wind that does not swtch velocity AND dirction at least a little bit.....and a switch from six to six thirty to five thirty is such a small switch that you would NEVER know it. Untill you miss, that is!! I can't imajin a place on earth, short of a wind tunnel, where the winds don't switch velocity AND direction at least a little. And a switch from 5:30 to 6:30 is a little. Strait cross winds are changing direction a bit, also, but you wont see it on target, because it doesn't move the bullit that much. What gets you there is the push and the let up, which I never even brought up in the headwind/tailwind situation.....that will also move your bullet around a bunch if the wind isn't DIRECTLY 6 or 12 oclock!!....kind of a two-fer!!! You don't need to shoot 10 shot groups, either....take 1 shaot a min, or every 10 min at a 1000 yard target....do it in your 6:00 / 12:00 wind situation. In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. A 6:00 / 12:00 wind would be IDEAL....velocity changes mean nothing...but this world isn't pefect!! With the strait cross wind, you need to worry about wind velocity almost exclusivly. A head wind/tailwind, on the other hand , demands you pay atention to the wind velocity, but more importantly, the wind direction...because a tiny switch there will mess up your day!!
If you can't read the wind well enough to detect a shift from 6:39-6:00 and then to 5:30 etc you aren't going to hit anything beyond 600yds anyhow.

The quick way to read wind accurately is to use essentially a clock face.

The 12:00hr clock represents how many minutes? One full rotation of the minute hand = 60 mins correct?

How many degrees are in a circle? 360 right?

Divide 360/60 and what do you get?

60, correct?

So using the clock face how many degrees does 5 minutes of wind equate to?

Plug that 30degrees into your shooting solution and pull the trigger.

I make it even simpler figuring a 30 degree wind as 1/3 of the full value wind correction and pull the trigger.

At best all wind corrections in the field are going to be nothing but the best approximation you can come up with because as I explained wind will rarely be consistent over the full flight of the bullet especially if you are dealing with anything other than perfectly flat terrain.

Shoot, learn, repeat. Shoot, learn, repeat.

The best advice I ever got on long range shooting came from the best natural shot I have ever known, "Don't be afraid to miss, until you've missed a lot you won't learn how to make the critical shots when the time comes".

Once you have done a lot of practicing you will "feel it" when the shot is right and know it when it's not.

If the wind is shifting then you are going to have to use all of your down range cues to time the shot for when the wind is where you need it to be for the corrections you have figured and set up for.

Shooting is at least as much of an art as it is a science and it just takes a lot of time and practice to make it as easy as some people make it sound.
__________________
Without the First and Second Amendments the rest of The Constitution is Meaningless.

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