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How far to kill an elk with a .243?

 
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  #43  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:06 AM
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Re: How far to kill an elk with a .243?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnoland30 View Post
I like your answer Woolecox, but I've seen too many young hunters buy a magnum that they can't control. Blowing off a front leg doesn't kill an elk cleanly. I shoot a lightly loaded 7mm WSM for elk, but I shoot my 7-30 Waters much better. Most hunters on this forum can probably handle some recoil, but there's a reason bench rest shooters are moving to 6 and 6.5 mm guns. Recoil adds up.

Today's copper and bonded bullets are much better than the ones we could buy when I was young. That makes a smaller caliber more effective, because of the retained weight and controlled expansion.
quite franky if they cant handle a magnum than they cant handle a lighter cal either the operation is identical. an elks hide is 1/4" thick their bones are stronger than 2x4s. anyone thying to take one down with less than 1500 ft/lbs will more than likely end up chasing it for miles. at long range it takes a magnum to deliver that type of energy if they cant handle recoil they should stick to close range
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  #44  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:45 AM
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Location: Redmond Or.
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Re: How far to kill an elk with a .243?

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Originally Posted by load View Post
quite franky if they cant handle a magnum than they cant handle a lighter cal either the operation is identical. an elks hide is 1/4" thick their bones are stronger than 2x4s. anyone thying to take one down with less than 1500 ft/lbs will more than likely end up chasing it for miles. at long range it takes a magnum to deliver that type of energy if they cant handle recoil they should stick to close range
Agreed 100%.
Shooting skills are the same. Results may be more exagerated in "big magnums" because of poor shooting skills, but that's why they made muzle breaks. Recoil is now a non issue if you choose to use a break.

I understand many folks can, & have done amazing things with tools that left them lacking, but come on. Momentum is a BIG factor when a bullet contacts resistance. A 243 has almost none at that range. Energy is energy, is energy, but it doesn't do anything for you if your bullet expells all of its energy in the first fraction of contact. The bullet just doesn't have any ***** to it to have momentum.
If you must Elk hunt with a pea shooter, keep the range realistic, or you WILL have trouble sooner than later. If you want to Elk hunt at long range, have the tools, as well as the skills to do it. Having one without the other just doesn't cut it.
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  #45  
Old 12-29-2011, 12:17 PM
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Re: How far to kill an elk with a .243?

I'm guessing you're both under the age of 35 based on your views. The younger folks seem less aware of the capibilities and have been brainwashed in to thinking a magnum is needed for everything.

I can tell you which gun writers started the crazy. I guess it is okay, but it is a shame the young folks don't really know what their guns will do.

It very much reminds me of the 223 isn't big enough for deer thread. Folks get down right mad when people ask about it, yet it is the prefered choice by those who get paid to thin the herd and kill hundreds if not thousands every year.

It would do the young guys and gals good to study history and learn about the calibers people used 50 to 100 years ago. The 243 looks like a super magnum compared to most all of them. Read up on calibers used by market hunters to shoot deer at long range. They were barely more then pistol calibers. Heck I've shot deer at a couple hundred yeards with open sited pistols in straight wall cartridges and the bullet went clear through and out the other side. We read abotu folks using them out to 600 yards and thought nothing of shooting deer 200 or 300 yards away.

Back then people used the 243 on elk and moose on a regular bases and no one thought it was too little. People understood how their bullets were made and knew how they performed at all ranges. They knew when to use partitions, JHP, SJSP, SP, and even solids, including what ranges all of them worked best. Many of them grew up on farms and shot 800 lbs cows and 300 lbs pigs with 22LR before cutting them up for the freezer. At one time the 44-40 was king for a deer hunting tool, which is almost as good as shooting them with a 44 special. If the deer was standing 300 yards away it was a chip shot. They killed elk with them too.

I'm not sure how we got from that to needing 338 super mags for elk past 100 yards, but it's kind of sad if you ask me.
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  #46  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:24 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 90
Re: How far to kill an elk with a .243?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek M. View Post
Now I'm curious what a 150VLD would do from my 270 on an elk.
According to Load Base:

150 VLD
2945 fps
1502.3 ft/lbs @ 480 yards

Here is a pretty good article on the legendary Jack O'connor and the 270 Winchester:
.270 Winchester - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wooly
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  #47  
Old 12-29-2011, 02:15 PM
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Location: Redmond Or.
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Re: How far to kill an elk with a .243?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiaailtli View Post
I'm guessing you're both under the age of 35 based on your views. The younger folks seem less aware of the capibilities and have been brainwashed in to thinking a magnum is needed for everything.

I can tell you which gun writers started the crazy. I guess it is okay, but it is a shame the young folks don't really know what their guns will do.

It very much reminds me of the 223 isn't big enough for deer thread. Folks get down right mad when people ask about it, yet it is the prefered choice by those who get paid to thin the herd and kill hundreds if not thousands every year.

It would do the young guys and gals good to study history and learn about the calibers people used 50 to 100 years ago. The 243 looks like a super magnum compared to most all of them. Read up on calibers used by market hunters to shoot deer at long range. They were barely more then pistol calibers. Heck I've shot deer at a couple hundred yeards with open sited pistols in straight wall cartridges and the bullet went clear through and out the other side. We read abotu folks using them out to 600 yards and thought nothing of shooting deer 200 or 300 yards away.

Back then people used the 243 on elk and moose on a regular bases and no one thought it was too little. People understood how their bullets were made and knew how they performed at all ranges. They knew when to use partitions, JHP, SJSP, SP, and even solids, including what ranges all of them worked best. Many of them grew up on farms and shot 800 lbs cows and 300 lbs pigs with 22LR before cutting them up for the freezer. At one time the 44-40 was king for a deer hunting tool, which is almost as good as shooting them with a 44 special. If the deer was standing 300 yards away it was a chip shot. They killed elk with them too.

I'm not sure how we got from that to needing 338 super mags for elk past 100 yards, but it's kind of sad if you ask me.
Ok, yes I am 35. And you?? You must've really been at woodstock?

Ok now that the unpleasentrys have been dealt with, here's how my reply should've been percieved....
243- can it take elk?- yes
Should you use a 243 for Long range elk?
No freakin way. (the key words here are long range).
Any legal modern firearm for hunting in the proper hands at the propper distance has plenty of medicine in comparison to my old black powder rifle. Oh & ya its one of those ol Davey Crockett types that uses loose FFG & a .490 roundball. Not an inline. I've killed plenty with it, & wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk at the right distance, & right shot.

The way I see it, eventhough I'm only 35.... Ha,... Is elk hunting now a days is WAY different than it used to be. Now a days you have 20-40x as many people on the woods on a Very compact time frame per season, chasing game that has been run to the ragged edge by every other hunting season out there for 2+ months prior, plus predators year round.
This is why Long Range apeals to me. I more than double my cahncrs of filling the freezer when Long Range is part of my hunting grab bag. I don't need a super magnum to kill an elk. But if I'm gonna reach way out there, I'm gonna do it with a cartrige that can take advantage of heavy, high B.C. & high S.D. bullets that can, & will deliver maximum energy downrange, & have less wind drift doing it.
Long range, for me, is about consistancy, & eliminating variables in order to make first round clean kills. I don't shoot magnums to make up for skill, its all about taking advantage of high b.c. bullets.
I also don't shoot them because you think I lack in age or wisdom. I've killed plenty with -06 & 270's & old fashioned black powder rifle. They're great. But if I'm shooting long range I use the propper tools to eliminate variables.
Again a 243 can, will, & has killed elk. But a .243 is not, nor will it ever be considered a LONG RANGE elk rifle by anybody who consistantly kills elk. Even if they are only 35.......

As to historical cartriges, most folks considered Long Range hunters used a 45-70 govt , a 50-140, or a 45-120 Sharps for whackin buff. The order of the day was BIG, HEAVY, & as fast as you could push it with thier available components thus the Sharps cartriges.
When smokeless powder came into its own, & copper jacketed bullets allowed for higher speeds, & more pessure, folks started pushing smaller cartriges harder to try & make up for lack of projectile size & wt. That works to a certain degree, but there's an obvious limmit. History has a way of repeating itself, & now a days you see people who know, build,& use guns for Long Range hunting leaning back toward bigger heavier cartriges as fast as they can push them with what we have available. Why? Because, just like back then, bigger & faster works better at Long Range. Wow. History was right.

I'm no farmer, but I did grow up on a ranch, & worked my butt off. I've drilled countless holes in steers, or cows with broken legs with a 22 as well. But it was always under controlled circumstances. In a corrall, not too far away, & had to wait for the absolute perfect shot or all hell broke loose, & you wound up replacing corral boards, plus had an angry, hurt animal to deal with, & when that was done, you still had to answer to dad for why you took a stupid shot with a pea shooter. Ya, I'm not fond of the gimmie generation either, but when you talk about Long Range like I'm wet behind the ears your talking without choosing your words, properly, letalone the folks tour talkin too.
I'm no long range expert, & never claimed to be. But I got a pretty good idea about my passions, & firearms is one of em.
__________________
"Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

"I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"

Last edited by winmag; 12-29-2011 at 04:54 PM.
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  #48  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:20 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: utah
Posts: 366
Re: How far to kill an elk with a .243?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiaailtli View Post
I'm guessing you're both under the age of 35 based on your views. The younger folks seem less aware of the capibilities and have been brainwashed in to thinking a magnum is needed for everything.

I can tell you which gun writers started the crazy. I guess it is okay, but it is a shame the young folks don't really know what their guns will do.

It very much reminds me of the 223 isn't big enough for deer thread. Folks get down right mad when people ask about it, yet it is the prefered choice by those who get paid to thin the herd and kill hundreds if not thousands every year.

It would do the young guys and gals good to study history and learn about the calibers people used 50 to 100 years ago. The 243 looks like a super magnum compared to most all of them. Read up on calibers used by market hunters to shoot deer at long range. They were barely more then pistol calibers. Heck I've shot deer at a couple hundred yeards with open sited pistols in straight wall cartridges and the bullet went clear through and out the other side. We read abotu folks using them out to 600 yards and thought nothing of shooting deer 200 or 300 yards away.

Back then people used the 243 on elk and moose on a regular bases and no one thought it was too little. People understood how their bullets were made and knew how they performed at all ranges. They knew when to use partitions, JHP, SJSP, SP, and even solids, including what ranges all of them worked best. Many of them grew up on farms and shot 800 lbs cows and 300 lbs pigs with 22LR before cutting them up for the freezer. At one time the 44-40 was king for a deer hunting tool, which is almost as good as shooting them with a 44 special. If the deer was standing 300 yards away it was a chip shot. They killed elk with them too.

I'm not sure how we got from that to needing 338 super mags for elk past 100 yards, but it's kind of sad if you ask me.

buzz wrong not under the age of 35.
when i tried to go hunting elk with my 6mm remington (age 18 more than 20 years ago) my grandfather refused to let me take it. He handed me a 30.06 and started talkin about his friend who insisted on using small calibers for elk and why my grandfather quit hunting with the guy (after several long treks chasing wounded elk) . the end
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  #49  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:11 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Halfway between Lubbock and Dallas
Posts: 4,674
Re: How far to kill an elk with a .243?

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmag View Post
Ok, yes I am 35. And you?? You must've really been at woodstock?

Ok now that the unpleasentrys have been dealt with, here's how my reply should've been percieved....
243- can it take elk?- yes
Should you use a 243 for Long range elk?
No freakin way. (the key words here are long range).
Any legal modern firearm for hunting in the proper hands at the propper distance has plenty of medicine in comparison to my old black powder rifle. Oh & ya its one of those ol Davey Crockett types that uses loose FFG & a .490 roundball. Not an inline. I've killed plenty with it, & wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk at the right distance, & right shot.

The way I see it, eventhough I'm only 35.... Ha,... Is elk hunting now a days is WAY different than it used to be. Now a days you have 20-40x as many people on the woods on a Very compact time frame per season, chasing game that has been run to the ragged edge by every other hunting season out there for 2+ months prior, plus predators year round.
This is why Long Range apeals to me. I more than double my cahncrs of filling the freezer when Long Range is part of my hunting grab bag. I don't need a super magnum to kill an elk. But if I'm gonna reach way out there, I'm gonna do it with a cartrige that can take advantage of heavy, high B.C. & high S.D. bullets that can, & will deliver maximum energy downrange, & have less wind drift doing it.
Long range, for me, is about consistancy, & eliminating variables in order to make first round clean kills. I don't shoot magnums to make up for skill, its all about taking advantage of high b.c. bullets.
I also don't shoot them because you think I lack in age or wisdom. I've killed plenty with -06 & 270's & old fashioned black powder rifle. They're great. But if I'm shooting long range I use the propper tools to eliminate variables.
Again a 243 can, will, & has killed elk. But a .243 is not, nor will it ever be considered a LONG RANGE elk rifle by anybody who consistantly kills elk. Even if they are only 35.......

As to historical cartriges, most folks considered Long Range hunters used a 45-70 govt , a 50-140, or a 45-120 Sharps for whackin buff. The order of the day was BIG, HEAVY, & as fast as you could push it with thier available components thus the Sharps cartriges.
When smokeless powder came into its own, & copper jacketed bullets allowed for higher speeds, & more pessure, folks started pushing smaller cartriges harder to try & make up for lack of projectile size & wt. That works to a certain degree, but there's an obvious limmit. History has a way of repeating itself, & now a days you see people who know, build,& use guns for Long Range hunting leaning back toward bigger heavier cartriges as fast as they can push them with what we have available. Why? Because, just like back then, bigger & faster works better at Long Range. Wow. History was right.

I'm no farmer, but I did grow up on a ranch, & worked my butt off. I've drilled countless holes in steers, or cows with broken legs with a 22 as well. But it was always under controlled circumstances. In a corrall, not too far away, & had to wait for the absolute perfect shot or all hell broke loose, & you wound up replacing corral boards, plus had an angry, hurt animal to deal with, & when that was done, you still had to answer to dad for why you took a stupid shot with a pea shooter. Ya, I'm not fond of the gimmie generation either, but when you talk about Long Range like I'm wet behind the ears your talking without choosing your words, properly, letalone the folks tour talkin too.
I'm no long range expert, & never claimed to be. But I got a pretty good idea about my passions, & firearms is one of em.
Alright now.... Don't be ragg'n on us over 45r's. Some of us are old enough to be your dad but still have enough common sense not to hunt Rhinos with a slingshot!
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