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Hodgen powder issues

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  #22  
Unread 07-11-2009, 04:41 PM
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Re: Hodgen powder issues

I have seen the same thing happen with H50 BMG in the Allem Mags over the last couple of years. I was running 144 gr in mine and now they are down to 136-138 gr to get the same velocity and relative pressure.
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  #23  
Unread 07-11-2009, 10:31 PM
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Re: Hodgen powder issues

You would think that if they were tweaking powders so they had a wider gap between powders they would put something up on their website or send out something to dealers to notify us that they were changing the burn rates.
I find it hard to believe that they would just change its rates and not even give a warning that its rate has been changed.
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  #24  
Unread 07-13-2009, 12:34 AM
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Re: Hodgen powder issues

About 4 years ago, I had similar issues with AR2217/H1000.

Since about 1998, I had being using a supply of H1000, which bizarrely was made by ADI in Oz, and imported by a Canberra gunshop from Hodgdon in the US. I believe the Oz equivalent AR2217 was not released by ADI in Oz until sometime well after 1998.

I had being using a load of 63.0 grains H1000 in my 25/06AI for about 7 years, and with the Nosler 115 grain BT it routinely delivered sub 0.5 moa at velocities ranging from 3240 to 3275.(depending on temp).

In April 2005, I purchased a 500 gram tin of AR 2217, as I was down to my last 20 shots loaded with my field load of 63.0/H1000. I was short on cases, so rather than work up from about 58 grains/2217, I decided to take the risk of loading 3 cases with 63.0 AR 2217. My first shot produced smoke from the bolt, 3482 fps on the chrono, and a blown primer once I hammered open the bolt with a rubber mallet.

I then fired 4 field loads (63.0/H1000) and recorded an average velocity of 3271 fps, and also fired loads of 61.0 and 62.0of Re 25. I have cut and pasted my chrono results below: Load: Winchester Cases, Remington 9 M Primer, Nosler 115 grain Ballistic Tip - loaded length 3.235 Seating Depth .010 - .015 inches from lands.

63.0 Grains ADI AR 2217
1 3482 Blown Primer, Way over Maximum
2 Not Fired “
3 Not Fired “ “

63.0 Grains Hodgdon 1000
1 3271 Near Max
2 3276 "
3 3266 "
4 3271 "
Ave 3271

Reloader 25
61.0 Grains
Shot FPS Remarks
1 3198 Pressure Near Max
2 3208 “
3 3248 “
Ave 3218
ES 50

62.0 grains Re 25
1 3293 Pressure Max
2 3293 "
3 3292 "
Ave 3293

Subsequent tests showed this lot of ADI AR 2217 is probably about 3 grains faster burning than the lot of Hodgdon 1000.
This represents about a 5% variation, which is probably within ADI's lot to lot variation tolerance.

Hope that the above is of interest. Brian

Last edited by brianwinzor; 07-13-2009 at 01:13 AM. Reason: Original post somehow saved before finished.
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  #25  
Unread 07-13-2009, 06:26 AM
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Re: Hodgen powder issues

I spoke again today to one of the developement team at THALES who produce the ADI 2217 or H1000.

He said he would definitely email his response to my questions today. Unofrtunately, it still was not forthcoming which surprises me a little..

Maybe there is a company policy not to put in print such details ?

There has been no concious effort to lift the burn rate with the powder. That is one thing for sure. However he did notice that some of the more recent batches have had slightly more elevated readings but well within their tolerances. He did think however that there was the possibilty that conditions whilst the powder is getting from AUS to US shores could play some small part ? Dont ask me exactly but he talked about moisture ?

I personally have been shooting ADI 2217 for the last 20 months an so far no noticable difference but I think the question may have surfaced to the importer in the US before ?

If his personal email turns up at work I will post it immediately as I told him alot of "fans " of his product were a little concerned .

Maybe he had a higher power call a halt to any explanations as he certainly was very forthcoming and clearly was a enthusiast himself. At least he knew what a 338 EDGE and 338 AM were ! Thats a good sign !

DUH
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  #26  
Unread 07-13-2009, 06:39 AM
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Re: Hodgen powder issues

DUH,

Thanks for the info. I recall reading (I think it was in Handloading for Competition by Zediker Publishing) that moisture differences from lot to lot can cause inconsistencies. In fact, he claims that having differences in humidity in your loading room can cause inconsistencies with the same powder lot !! Instead of weighing his loads, he uses a high quality volume measure (which would eliminate moisture content fluctiations).

If someone has both a new and old lot of the powder, it would be interesting to weigh out 100gr with both and then see if they occupied the same volume.

AJ
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  #27  
Unread 07-13-2009, 10:12 AM
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Re: Hodgen powder issues

I do not think they tweaked the burn rates on purpose, nor think it is a big deal, just a pain in the rear.

I see these slight changes from lot to lot with almost all manufacturers. Some are relatively small differences, some are bigger. The burn rate for vv560 has changed enough over the last three years to pop primers in top in loads developed with older lots of powder. I have seen the same thing with reloader 22, 19, 15, H4350, IMR 4831, H50BMG.
It is a good idea to buy powder in bulk so you only have to deal with these changes occasionally. Unfortunately I have never been able to find my favorite and most used powder in anything larger than one pound jugs vv560. Worse yet it has proven to be one of the least consistant from year to year. It always works great once you tweak your load. I burn from 10 to 12 pounds of this stuff a year and it is a pain because I shoot it in so many different rifles.
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  #28  
Unread 07-15-2009, 10:07 PM
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Re: Hodgen powder issues

Glad to know I am not the only one who noticed this. I, too, am running less powder with faster velocities. 90.5 gns is just the ticket in my Edge.
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