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Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

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  #106  
Unread 07-16-2009, 12:41 PM
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Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

I don't own one but from what I've seen and read the .338 Edge would be a good choice..................
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  •   #107  
    Unread 07-17-2009, 07:01 AM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    What about the good old 30-06 with a 190 grain projectile? Worked in WWII!
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      #108  
    Unread 07-21-2009, 01:05 AM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magnumpeanut View Post
    Did the 308 stop killing people in the last 75 years?
    No, but the enemy combatants know how far they can "effectively" shoot so they stay beyond that range or because of terrain, especially like in Afghanistan, the distances are so much greater for a cartridge that was designed for 800 yds...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bwaites View Post
    John, There are lots of GREAT wildcats with similar or even better performance, like the .338 Edge, the Allen Magnums, etc., but selling the military on a non-standardized cartridge seems like an impossibility to me.

    Thus the Lapua seems like the best bet.

    Bill
    Neither the .30/06 Springfield or the .308 Win/7.62NATO were commercial rounds until the military made them popular so your criteria of non-standard rounds doesn't apply...The .338 Lapua was made up for long distance shooters and morphed into being a sniper round...

    Just because it's a wildcat now doesn't mean it won't be commercially viable tomorrow--think .22/250, .25/06, .250/3000, .30/338, .338/378...Hell, I remember when Elmer Keith got Winchester to make his .338 OKH into the .338 Win Mag and Weatherby to make their .338/378 from his round...

    Look at the hype over the military adopting the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC as a replacement for the .223/5.56mm NATO...They sure weren't commercial rounds 8 - 10 years ago when this hullabaloo started!

    The reason the military is sticking with the .308 as it was the only calibre that got created by the military's Ordnance Dept. and they don't want to see their baby go bye-bye! Well ,he's over 50 yrs old and should by this time leave his mama's apron strings!

    Commercial; .338 Lapua but my preference is for the .408 CheyTac built on a standard M-40 style not the floating barrel that they copied from EDM...mine shoots impossibly small groups at all ranges to >1,500M...

    For a real kick check out RND Mfg. for their Edge ARs in .300 Win mag, .338 Lapua mag and they built for the SHOT Show a .408 CheyTac...

    The .416 Barrett is supposed to be neat but they and CheyTac just wouldn't sell their "one shot" computer to those who wanted to build their own, so we had to use our own computers to do it...The Barrett is just a necked down .50 BMG (so they could sell in CA) as is the .460 Steyr which I'd rather shoot of the two...

    My next purchase is going to be an Unique Alpine switch barrel in .308 Win, .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua and .338 Allen Mag...

    Mainly, forget about that POS Remington 700 action...for hunting/varmint rifles it's great but for a military action it requires CRF and my biggest beef with it--you have to spend $1,000 getting it blueprinted, squared, adjusted, trigger replaced when you could just go out and buy a semi or full custom action, like a Surgeon, RPA etc. for less money...I don't really care that you can make the 700 action shootable when you completely rebuild it, it then is no longer a 700 action...Just as a NASCAR stock car isn't your daddy's Oldsmobile!!!
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      #109  
    Unread 07-21-2009, 09:18 AM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    Saulg,
    Is that a hammer protruding from the rear of the action? If not, what is it and its function? I can't read German!
    __________________
    Matthew 7:13-14
    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

    Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

    arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
    Reply With Quote
      #110  
    Unread 07-21-2009, 06:08 PM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    Quote:
    Just because it's a wildcat now doesn't mean it won't be commercially viable tomorrow--think .22/250, .25/06, .250/3000, .30/338, .338/378...Hell, I remember when Elmer Keith got Winchester to make his .338 OKH into the .338 Win Mag and Weatherby to make their .338/378 from his round...
    No, but it does not meet the contract criteria of two major commercial ammo manufacturers today; not maybe tomorrow! So forget wildcats for this contract, regardless of how good they might be.

    Quote:
    Look at the hype over the military adopting the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC as a replacement for the .223/5.56mm NATO...They sure weren't commercial rounds 8 - 10 years ago when this hullabaloo started!
    and at the end of the today, they are not standard military rounds now either so whats the point.

    Quote:
    The reason the military is sticking with the .308 as it was the only calibre that got created by the military's Ordnance Dept. and they don't want to see their baby go bye-bye! Well ,he's over 50 yrs old and should by this time leave his mama's apron strings!
    Who said they are getting rid of it or should they. Just adding a real LR capability that exceeds the 308. Pretty sure you will see the 308 around for awhile also. Might simply be the fact too that thousands of rifles chambered for it and perfectly fine for up to 800m rather than who the hell invented it 50 years ago. In reality, the military does not give a damn who invented it 50 years ago, total BS. The vaguest understanding of the military UNS and contract process would kill any thoughts of that.

    BH
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      #111  
    Unread 07-22-2009, 06:07 AM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by liltank View Post
    Saulg,
    Is that a hammer protruding from the rear of the action? If not, what is it and its function? I can't read German!


    Not sure what you mean but:

    The stock is removable, just at the pistol grip…behind the thumbhole is an adjustable cheek piece and near the end of the butt, on the bottom, is a “mono” pod and then the end which is also adjustable…there is a spare magazine well in the bottom of the butt, forward of the monopod like on the old Steyr Scout rifles…I hope that helps somewhat…
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      #112  
    Unread 08-20-2009, 09:49 AM
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    Join Date: Dec 2003
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    First off thank you to the guys that started this. Its good to know good men are always looking for ways to make it easier for the one that follow them to do the hard jobs.
    This is just my opinion but its based on a few years of Tactical and Competitive Shooting

    First off no one round or one rifle will do everything. Once that is accepted we just have to decide which sytems and calibers are needed

    Below is from Military non permissive enviornment not LE permissive.

    Urban Work means short range and that means higher rates of fire because of lack of stand off distance. Sniper will have spotter with high rate of fire but always better to have both with weapons capable of rapid fire. This is Urban and and often you will have to move fast so carrying a secondary Assault Weapon will not b always an option. For this the SR25/MK11/M110s (Once all bugs are worked out) or a similar semi auto is the answer and 7.62 is a great choice for caliber. Great Terminal and External Balistics for distances needed, 0-800 yards. Great bbl life, around 10,000 rds. Already in system with all bugs worked out of round.

    Rural Work means longer distances of up to 1500 yards. Here you have some stand off distance and a BoltAction can be used, with sniper having a secondary Assauly Weapon for unexpected short range "Oh Craps". Calibers here can be whittled down to several catagories. Smaller Bullets of heavy weight, with high BC and high velocity, Medium Caliber Bullets and the big bullets. Breaking down further, look into what the bullet needs to do at impact.

    For two legged kills,any bullet 6.5mm or larger will work. Just remember the bigger the bullet the more recoil and muzzle blast produced.

    For equipment knocking out the tougher the bullet, the better they tend to do the hard target work. Here 338 and larger is needed with the 50BMG having the edge. Plus the 50s already have specialty ammo to do lots of damage at impact. Draw back is 50BMG gives your position away first round with blast. Second round follow ups are slow and the systems are very heavy.

    For two legged hits at great distance you need to consider blast, bbl life and recoil. Having shot the fast 6.5s I would stay away for military use. Between the 300WM, loaded to 3.6" with 210 or 220s and best 338 Lapua Ammo its a toss up to me. The 338 Has better range potential (addd about 200 yards over the best 300WM) but recoil is far worse. Both when fired as sniper weapons (Slow fire) have good bbl life (If rapid fired you can toast either bbl in a 1000 rds)

    Hope this helps.
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