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Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

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  #92  
Unread 03-18-2008, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpsman View Post
With the experience I have shooting the .308 Winchester round in Palma competition for many years.....I have doubts that the .308 is the problem; rather the training of young 'ground-pounders'!!
I'm sure that you a quite the pro at punching little holes in paper at any distance that your heart desires, but I believe the topic concerns lethality issues on a two way shooting range.
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  •   #93  
    Unread 03-19-2008, 10:07 AM
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    I also agree give them what they need..they know best..but what irks me , itches my arse, causes me to curse is that no matter where you look be it the military or big business ..those at the top know nothing of the bottom..Man it drives me crazy..It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever :mad:
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      #94  
    Unread 07-14-2009, 10:28 PM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    I realize that this thread is a few years old, but I can't resist the urge to reply. I didn't read every page so if this was covered I apologize for wasting your time. In my opinion (personal and professional) one rifle for all missions is not the best way to go. Most situations dictate the need for at least 3 different operational platforms, depending on the mission and/or target.

    When operating as part of a squad or attached to a platoon, in an urban environment, most sniper shots will be under 500 yards and the opportunity for multiple targets is very possible. For this mission I would choose to employ a flat topped AR10 type weapon chambered in 7mm SAUM (or even 7-08) and pushing the 162 gr A-Max or SMK through a 26" barrel. I would top off the rifle with a 3.5-10x40mm Mark4 scope (or one like it).

    I did not choose the VLD type bullets because they are too sensitive in
    terms of seating distance from the lands. When fighting in relative close proximity with the enemy, things can get rough. Besides, Marines aren't known for being delicate with any type of gear (we leave that to the Air Force).

    When operating in pairs, or when attached, and targets are expected to be at further distances and a single exposed target is the objective, I would choose a rifle like the Surgeon Scalpel. It would be chambered in 7mm SAUM, pushing a VLD style 180 gr bullet through a 28" barrel, and topped off with a 4.5-14x50mm Mark 4 type scope.

    I picked the Surgeon rifle because the Surgeon action is a much better "twin" to the 700. The action has a intergrated recoil lug (extra threading for a stiffer barrel) and intergrated picatinny rail (increased strength, stiffness, and no screws to come loose or break). This type of mission is better suited for care of the ammo and the increased BC of the VLD bullets. This rilfe would not be the only weapon carried by the sniper on this mission.

    When the target is at greater distances or is protected by some type of minor obstruction (vehicle door, body armor, or another person) I would choose the Surgeon Remedy rilfe chambered in .338 Lapua or .388 Edge. It would have a 30" barrel, push 300 gr SMK (or similar bullet), and top it off with a 6.5-20x 50mm Mark 4 type scope.

    One important thing that most people don't think about is the report of the rifle. I'll spare you the long version, but basically the loulder the report of the rifle (.338's and bigger) the easier it is for the enemy to determine the origin of the shot, especially under 1000 yards. This may not be important, until they blanket the area with mortar rounds or send a platoon to take out you and your spotter.

    All of this is assuming that I would be paying for each rifle. If the "powers that be" would pick up the bill I would probabily only change the optics.

    I would be hard pressed to pick just one rifle for all applications, each mission dictates what weapons are need. Hope I didn't bore you too much.

    Semper Fi
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      #95  
    Unread 07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    Keep the 308, add 2" of barrel and loose the 175 SMK.
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      #96  
    Unread 07-15-2009, 04:31 PM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    Quote:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Michael Eichele View Post
    Keep the 308, add 2" of barrel and loose the 175 SMK.
    Keep the .308... loose the Win... add the WSM... add 2" of barrel... loose the 175 SMK (BC .49)... add a 195 gr monometal, BC of .66 @ an MV of 3200 fps. It will reach 1500 yds with a vel of 1400 fps and KE of 850 and it would stay supersonic out to 2K.

    No offense, but in all seriousness, what the 308 Win can do, the WSM can do better.

    Now, if we look at Brian Litz' article... "What's wrong with the 30 cal?", there is a strong argument for going with a smaller cal, like the 7mm.

    IMO, a high BC 7mm monometal bullet, with driving bands for increased velocity and longer barrel life, delivered from a WSM, Dakota or RUM would be a great sniper round.

    I think the best candidates are...

    300 WSM
    300 Dakota
    300 RUM
    7mm WSM
    7mm Dakota
    7mm RUM

    Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, so the requirements need to be well defined to find the one that best fits the bill. I lean to the WSM's which would be more mobile, with longer barrel life.

    I left out the 338's, for two reasons...

    Excessive recoil and weight of ammo. The 300 and 7mm RUM would stretch these limits also, but IMO not overly. The 338's could however be used in special circumstances when needed.

    -MR

    Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 07-15-2009 at 04:38 PM.
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      #97  
    Unread 07-15-2009, 05:39 PM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    You will get no argument from me about the wsm doing everything better. One thought is that a couple of the reasons the military adopted the 308 was ammo weight and recoil.

    If those are still requirments then there is nothing wrong with what they are using now. Add a couple inches of barrel throw in the 190 grain bullet and in standard air youre subsonic to 1300+ yards. There is more to a sniper's weapon than windage.

    Now if they want to increase ammo weight and recoil then by golly do it right. 338 LM.

    I left out the 7mm because good luck getting the military to adopt it.
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      #98  
    Unread 07-15-2009, 06:19 PM
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    Re: Help the Marine Corps decide on a new caliber for their sniper rifles

    My vote is for the .338 Lapua. They should just adopt the U.K.'s Accuracy International rifle for the job. 2nd place .300wm.
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