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Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

 
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  #85  
Old 04-01-2011, 01:38 PM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
If a 500 yard zero works for you, that's great, but from what you're saying it seems to complicate things greatly. You essentially have to use a range finder at all ranges except less than 100 yds whereas anything inside of 300 yds, I just aim and shoot. Altitude is not the only thing that affects ballistics. Barometric pressure and temp also affect trajectory. A swing of 2" of mercury and 60* in temp cam affect the 500 yd POI by over 2" without an altitude change. In the country I hunt I can easily see 50 degree temp swings from morning to afternoon and 5000' of elevation change not to mention barometric pressure changes. In order to make an accurate LR shot with a 500 yd zero, you have to do 3 calculations. You have to calculate your zero correction, then apply that correction, then calculate for actual range and conditions. That seems very complicated to me. I only calculate for actual range conditions and shoot. Another thing about a 500 yd zero, you are not saving any elevation adjustment in your scope because you are using come up adjustment for your 500 yrd zero. If your scope has 25 MOA of up adjustment and you use 10 of it for a 500 yrd zero, you still only have 15 MOA left. Zeroing at longer ranges does not help you get more elevation adjustment from your scope. Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no advantage to it and a lot of complications from it.



And the combination I suggested to the OP with 20 MOA cant was less expensive than the combination you suggested. So I dont see where the savings of a noncanted mount are? If we want to debate quality that's another thing.

So unless I'm missing something, I don't see why he shouldn't get a 20 MOA base? It gives him a whole lot more flexibility.
The vital zone of an elk or thousand pound hog is about 18" sq. 2" is nothing.

As for "complicated", no, not at all No need to dope and dial because as I said, I use the mil dots rather than dialing in my elevation/drop.

I've been stacking up bodies with one shot kills with this method for 20 years before ballistic calculators were even available to the public so I know without a doubt it works.

Take a look at the zeiss Rapiz Z reticles. They are set up basically using a very similar principle, and ya know, they have enough FOV to get a bullet to 1000yds without indirect fire.

We're not talking about a bench rest competition and the need for sub 1/2MOA groups to win. We're talking about killing a very large animal with a large vital zone under field conditions, not off of a bench.

As for cost, the difference in the bases alone is over 80.00 and another 80.00 or more vs some of the other ring recommendations.

Again, college kid on a tight budget, and a hunting rifle that will be used for a MAX of 1000yds, not a toy being set up specifically for 1000yd shots at the range.
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  #86  
Old 04-01-2011, 01:43 PM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

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Originally Posted by teampete View Post
Thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it all and respect all of your comments. For the base I think I will probably go with EGW 20 moa. The 20 moa will give me more options in the future and the same price. Now i need to find some good alumium rings. I do not want to get steel rings and aluminum base so aluminum it is. The burris tactical seem nice especially for 60 bucks but I worry about the bad reviews. I can get the vortex (seekins) rings for 85 bucks and may opt to spend an extra 20 bucks for the better rings? Does that sound good? Also what height rings should I get for that viper scope I want?
Burris generally has a very good reputation. They sell thousands and thousands of rings every year. I wouldn't let two or three unsatisfied customers scare you off.

If you get a bad set their customer service is pretty good too. If you get them through Cabela's, there CS is excellent on defective merchandise unless it comes out of the Bargain Cave... might want to check with them when you place your phone order (don't do Internet) to be sure before buying if you have any doubts.

Leupold also makes aliminum rings.

Leupold aluminum rings 30mm - Google Search

Just keep in mind when lapping your rings that you can eat up a whole lot of aluminum in a hurry and end up overdoing it such that they won't properly tighten if you do.
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  #87  
Old 04-01-2011, 02:27 PM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

I think I will go with medium rings because I can use those rings once I upgrade my scope to something bigger like 50 obj.
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  #88  
Old 04-01-2011, 02:51 PM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

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Quote:
Originally Posted by teampete View Post
I think I will go with medium rings because I can use those rings once I upgrade my scope to something bigger like 50 obj.
You can go with the med rings and there's not a lot of difference, but the lows will work. As I mentioned earlier, I have lows on my 50mm NF and a heavy varmint contour barrel and I have about 1/4" clearance. Lows will even work with a 56mm scope.
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  #89  
Old 04-01-2011, 03:49 PM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The vital zone of an elk or thousand pound hog is about 18" sq. 2" is nothing.

As for "complicated", no, not at all No need to dope and dial because as I said, I use the mil dots rather than dialing in my elevation/drop.

I've been stacking up bodies with one shot kills with this method for 20 years before ballistic calculators were even available to the public so I know without a doubt it works.

We're not talking about a bench rest competition and the need for sub 1/2MOA groups to win. We're talking about killing a very large animal with a large vital zone under field conditions, not off of a bench.
I figure the kill zone of an elk is about 24"x30" but i still want to put as much in my favor as possible. I can't question your experience and methods. If your experience is a military rilfeman or sniper, you were taught a method to use and probably got thousands of bullets down range and got a very good knowledge and feel for your weapon and probably knew just where to hold at a given range. Some use the holdover method and some dial. Some use drop charts and some a calc. Some use BDC turrets and reticles and some use MOA or Mil.

2" @ 500 yds is no big deal for hunting purposes, but you can get up to 4" or more @ 500 yds with an extreme spread of altitude, temp and pressure which will more than double @ 100 yds. Granted, I am talking about the extreme spread but where I hunt, that spread and even greater is possible. At Air Force Tactics School, Nellis AFB, Nv, their moto was improve the odds. I believe in making things as precise and reliable as "practically" possible.

How good would you say your range estimating skill is at 300 yds in various types of terrain? Mine is about + or - 50 yds sometimes better sometimes worse. With a 200 yd zero I can afford a 50 yd fudge factor and still easily hit the kill zone with almost no mental adjustment. 300 yds, aim upper 3/4 of body, If I'm off 50 yds either way, it's still a kill. With a 500 yd zero, the trajectory curve is much more rainbow and exact range more critical.

Quote:
Take a look at the zeiss Rapiz Z reticles. They are set up basically using a very similar principle, and ya know, they have enough FOV to get a bullet to 1000yds without indirect fire.
No argument here, if your method is holdover, but for dialing, it's nice to have an extra 20 MOA and it doesn't cost anymore. And if you combine Dialing with holdover, you can go all the farther. When I first joined this site, i thought 1K was going to be my limit, but lately I am thinking of stretching that out to 1500 and 2K.

Quote:
As for cost, the difference in the bases alone is over 80.00 and another 80.00 or more vs some of the other ring recommendations.

Again, college kid on a tight budget, and a hunting rifle that will be used for a MAX of 1000yds, not a toy being set up specifically for 1000yd shots at the range.
There must be a misunderstanding here, I recommended the EGW 20 MOA base which costs $40.

As enjoyable as our discussion has been, I think this horse is taking its last gasp so I leave you with the last word

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 04-01-2011 at 03:54 PM.
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