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Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

 
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  #71  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:03 AM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

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The difference is between brands, not whether it's canted or not. A 20 MOA EGW costs the same as straight EGW, etc.
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  #72  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:10 AM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
I used to zero my rifles at 300 yds with MV's of 3400 fps until I read in a recent thread that environmental conditions could change your zero POI (which actually changes your zero distance), which in turn changes your down range POI because all your data is based on your zero distance. In a 300 WM a pressure altitude difference of 5000' will change your 500 yd POI elevation by about 2" which is going to throw off eveything down range by larger margins. If you shoot and hunt at ranges lesss than 500 yds, I see no benefit from zeroing @ 500 yds. Depending on your load and scope hieght, your trajectory inside 500 yds could reach about 18" above line of sight. With my rifles, I now zero @ 200 yds, which only change by about 0.2" with an 8000' ft pressure altitude change.

IMO, there's no reason not to get a 20 MOA canted base unless your scope has less than enough travel to to zero with a 20 MOA base, which shouldn't be an issue with the Viper. Without it, 1K shooting might be iffy, and if he ever decides to shoot at longer ranges in the future, his uncanted base will be useless.

Objective size doesn't affect FOV. If you look at the specs of the Vipers in 44mm and 50mm, you'll see that their FOV's are the same. Same holds true for Nightforce scopes.
If I were going on a hunt where I was making a 3000' or greater altitude change the first thing I'd do when I got there is to check the zero on my rifle.

I can also reset my zero based off of some very simple calculations if that is not an option.

As for sub zero range hold under, again, knowing your ballistics or having a simple range chart makes that a complete non issue.
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Last edited by WildRose; 04-01-2011 at 07:13 AM.
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  #73  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:13 AM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
The difference is between brands, not whether it's canted or not. A 20 MOA EGW costs the same as straight EGW, etc.
It's still a difference of over 100.00 for the rings and base between what I recommeded vs, the NF and others and there's still no real advantage to the 20moa base, particularly since the 1000yds shot is simply a possibility, rather than the rifle being set up specifically for 1000yd shots.
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  #74  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:20 AM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

Thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it all and respect all of your comments. For the base I think I will probably go with EGW 20 moa. The 20 moa will give me more options in the future and the same price. Now i need to find some good alumium rings. I do not want to get steel rings and aluminum base so aluminum it is. The burris tactical seem nice especially for 60 bucks but I worry about the bad reviews. I can get the vortex (seekins) rings for 85 bucks and may opt to spend an extra 20 bucks for the better rings? Does that sound good? Also what height rings should I get for that viper scope I want?
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  #75  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:13 AM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
If I were going on a hunt where I was making a 3000' or greater altitude change the first thing I'd do when I got there is to check the zero on my rifle.

I can also reset my zero based off of some very simple calculations if that is not an option.

As for sub zero range hold under, again, knowing your ballistics or having a simple range chart makes that a complete non issue.
If a 500 yard zero works for you, that's great, but from what you're saying it seems to complicate things greatly. You essentially have to use a range finder at all ranges except less than 100 yds whereas anything inside of 300 yds, I just aim and shoot. Altitude is not the only thing that affects ballistics. Barometric pressure and temp also affect trajectory. A swing of 2" of mercury and 60* in temp cam affect the 500 yd POI by over 2" without an altitude change. In the country I hunt I can easily see 50 degree temp swings from morning to afternoon and 5000' of elevation change not to mention barometric pressure changes. In order to make an accurate LR shot with a 500 yd zero, you have to do 3 calculations. You have to calculate your zero correction, then apply that correction, then calculate for actual range and conditions. That seems very complicated to me. I only calculate for actual range conditions and shoot. Another thing about a 500 yd zero, you are not saving any elevation adjustment in your scope because you are using come up adjustment for your 500 yrd zero. If your scope has 25 MOA of up adjustment and you use 10 of it for a 500 yrd zero, you still only have 15 MOA left. Zeroing at longer ranges does not help you get more elevation adjustment from your scope. Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no advantage to it and a lot of complications from it.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
It's still a difference of over 100.00 for the rings and base between what I recommended vs, the NF and others and there's still no real advantage to the 20moa base, particularly since the 1000yds shot is simply a possibility, rather than the rifle being set up specifically for 1000yd shots.
And the combination I suggested to the OP with 20 MOA cant was less expensive than the combination you suggested. So I dont see where the savings of a noncanted mount are? If we want to debate quality that's another thing.

So unless I'm missing something, I don't see why he shouldn't get a 20 MOA base? It gives him a whole lot more flexibility.
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  #76  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:32 AM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

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Quote:
Originally Posted by teampete View Post
Thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it all and respect all of your comments. For the base I think I will probably go with EGW 20 moa. The 20 moa will give me more options in the future and the same price. Now i need to find some good alumium rings. I do not want to get steel rings and aluminum base so aluminum it is. The burris tactical seem nice especially for 60 bucks but I worry about the bad reviews. I can get the vortex (seekins) rings for 85 bucks and may opt to spend an extra 20 bucks for the better rings? Does that sound good? Also what height rings should I get for that viper scope I want?
The Vortex rings might be better than the Burris and might not. One set of rings might be machined better than another set of the same make and model depending on manufacturing quality standards. You're always going to find some negative comments about any product and sometimes a bad product slips through. If you feel better about the Vortex rings then get them. I have no experience with the Burris rings, but based on a lot of other good comments on them, I'll probably give them a chance and if I don't like them, I'll return them which is a hassle. I'm also going to try the Weaver's. If they work, no sense spending a lot of extra money on rings. Something to consider is cartridge being used... Higher quality rings and base may be needed for higher recoil rifles. The $35 Weaver rings might work fine on my 25-06, but I would shy away from putting them on my 300 RUM without brake.

Low rings should work just fine. I have low rings for my 50mm NF.
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  #77  
Old 04-01-2011, 12:02 PM
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Re: Gun build - Scope help PLEASE

Cabelas has the burris tactical rings for 49.99 right now. They have medium height though. Is that too high? Will it effect my clicks or anything I should know? I imaginee getting the medium will for sure work as the lows there is a possibility it may be too low? I know cabelas will return if they are bad but I really dont want to have to go through that process.

Cabela's: Burris® Extreme Tactical Rings
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