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Guides and LR shots

 
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  #1  
Old 05-19-2007, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mouth of Hobble Crk Canyon, Utah
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Guides and LR shots

Next year, not this, for my 50th, my wife is saying "go for it". Basically, I'm hoping to go for Sheep/Grizzly/Moose. This will, I believe, dictate the mandatory use of a guide in Alaska or Canada. Since this may be a once in a life time hunt, money and age being the primary factor, I want to be ready to take the shot and any sane range that I'm capable. This may be longer than the guide will allow if he does not understand LR capabilities.

Any one out there ever have any trouble with guides/outfitters who refuse to deal with you or even deny the hunter to take the shot if their beliefs are not on par with our?

In case the question arises, the caliber will be 30-06 Ackley with 180 AB's running 3/4 MOA at 3050 fps.
Big Al
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2007, 11:58 AM
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Re: Guides and LR shots

Al,

This very thing happened to us in Africa on a plains game hunt. Due to bad experiences with past clients the guide wasnt very thrilled to allow any long(er) shots on game. He wanted to get as close as possible which is fine by me but theyre were situations where we couldnt get closer and he wouldnt let us shoot. I am not talking LONG RANGE either normal was between 3-500 yds. Finally what we did was had a talk with him over lunch one day explained that we practiced at these distances ALOT and felt confident we could make the shot and we would prove it. That took him over the edge and he agreed to take us back to the range. We set up targets at 300 and did some shooting and he was impressed and finally agreed to let us take a long shot if one presented itself. Well needless to say not to long after a nice hartebeest was spotted and ranged @ 400 yds my friend was the shooter he made his adj. and let her fly the hartebeest never knew what hit him he dropped right there. A few more animals fell at longer than normal ranges for them anyway and we made a believer out of him [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My advice to you is discuss this with your outfitter/ guide service before ever booking with them and make things up front from the beginning. Also im sure with all the people here that someone may have a contact etc. to some outfitter or guide who actually welcomes LRH anyway goodluck with your search and even better luck with your hunt.

Aloha,

Dave
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2007, 09:15 PM
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Re: Guides and LR shots

Al , I've talked to a couple guides about this sort of thing and they all said that if the hunter can prover that he can make a long shot in field conditions then they would let him try , but if the animal LOOKS hit and even if their is no sign of blood and the animal is not recovered their tag gets punched and the guide gets paid and the hunter goes home empty handed.

what are you talking about for long range ????

Now if the bears your wanting to shoot are anything bigger than black bears then I would definatly get a bigger calber , yes the 180 accubond at 3000fps will do the job on all three critters you mentioned , I personaly feel that it would be margenal for big bears and moose at long range. I'm sure that it would kill anything here in north america or the world for that matter at 800yds if the shot is perfect , but we get very few of those.

I would step up to a bigger 300 like the RUM and 200gr accubonds , or a bigger 338 like the RUM or Edge.

Granted if a world class bear walked out at 600yds and was just standing their broadside and the conditions were right I would shoot him with a 308 if thats what I had but I woulden't go chasing after the trophy of a liftime with margenal horse power.
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2007, 07:46 AM
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Re: Guides and LR shots

Unfortunately you should do what your guide wants on the hunt. That is why its best to talk these things over before you get to that point.

The first thing I would look for is a reputable guide service above all else. Just because they will let you shoot long range does not mean they are a quality outfitter, may just mean that they do not care what happens to the game.

The reason most guides do not like long range shooting is because sadly, most hunters think they are long range shooters but in all honesty should be limited to less then 200 yards, especially when there is something like a bull yukon moose or grizzly in front of them.

Find a reputable outfitter first, talk about long range shooting later. You will have a better chance at getting your animals that way.

As far as your rifle, I would also have to agree with James that your running a little light with that rifle. For conventional ranges, it would work fine in most cases but again, this is a hunt of a lifetime.

Even if you do not want to jump up to the ultra mag cases, I would at least recommend something like a 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag. Both are very easy to shoot and both would be head and shoulders above what the 30-06 will offer on game at any range.

I would agree that the 300 RUM or 338 RUM or Edge would be better choices as well if you can shoot them accurately and with todays muzzle brakes and recoil pads, there is no reason why you could not shoot them very well.

Again, putting that bullet in the right spot is the most critical factor to taking game but there is no doubt that the larger calibers are far more effective on heavy game when hit on the fringes. That said, a gut shot bear is a gut shot bear no matter what you hit him with so you need to be able to shoot what you take.

That is another reason guides do not like long range shooting, I would not like to go after a wounded grizzly either!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

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  #5  
Old 05-21-2007, 08:25 AM
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Location: Mouth of Hobble Crk Canyon, Utah
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Re: Guides and LR shots

Kirby,

[ QUOTE ]
I would at least recommend something like a 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag. Both are very easy to shoot and both would be head and shoulders above what the 30-06 will offer on game at any range.


[/ QUOTE ]

Glad you mentioned that.

Federal factory ballistics for 300 WM & 180 Nosler AB is 2960 fps at the muzzle.

My '06 Ackely with the same bullet runs 3050 fps.

I appreciate the advice. Pleast trust that I am not going to take a long shot just because I can, but because I have to. And....I'll more than likely keep it within 550 yards which would be about 2000 ft lbs of E.

Big Al
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: Guides and LR shots

Realize I did not say to use factory ammo either.

You load a 300 Win Mag up with a 200 gr Accubond and it would match the velocity you are getting with your 30-06 AI with the 180 gr Accubond. On heavy game, bullet weight will mean much more then velocity ever will.

Also, on heavy game, bullet diameter will also make a much more authoritative hit as well.

Certainly not saying that your 30-06 AI is not capable, it certainly is, Just realize what your hunting and that as yourself state, this may be a once in a lifetime hunt. I would not settle for the performance level you are at currently on a hunt like this. For the money you will spend on this hunt, spend another 10% and have a full custom rifle made that will cover any situation that may arise at any range close or long. A 338 Edge or 338 Allen Xpress would be simply impossible to beat in a custom rifle built for the conditions up north.

Those two round would give you 2850 to 2950 fps with the 300 gr SMK and would truely be impressive at any range on heavy game.

Again, not hammering your 30-06 AI, just saying that for what you will have invested in this hunt, a new rifle may be another minor investment.

Imagine that big old bull moose staring you down at 800 yards. Your 30-06 AI is not a 1/2 mile moose rifle whereas the two 338 mentioned certainly are and when built properly, will have less recoil then an unbraked 30-06 AI in a sporter weight rifle.

Just my opinion, take it or leave it. Just hope you have a hell of a hunt!! That will truely be a once in a life time experience!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2007, 05:34 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9
Re: Guides and LR shots

I don't think there will be a problem with the moose. They are a huge target and they won't try to eat you if you have to track them after the shot. The guide will want to get you as close as possible,though,because that's his job. Most sheep are not shot at extreme range. They are spotted from afar and a stalk is planned which keeps you hidden until you are in decent range. Long shots are rather rare and are not favored because wounded rams sometimes run off cliffs and get messed up so badly a taxidermist can't put them back together. Grizzlies are a different matter. The guide will want to get you close enough to be sure you place the shot where it will kill quickly. Guides don't like following up on wounded grizzlies. Enjoy your trip!
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