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Is This a Good Deal???

 
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  #1  
Old 08-21-2004, 06:44 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
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Is This a Good Deal???

New to long range and looking to buy a 700PSS with Leupold scope. I found this package deal with gun, scope, accessories, and accurizing job included. Is this a good deal? Do think I should buy each item separately them try to find a riflesmith put it all together and accurize it for me? Any thoughts would be welcome and respected. Thank you!!

http://www.impactguns.com/store/product1798.html http://www.impactguns.com/store/product1798.html
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2004, 08:30 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Urich, MO
Posts: 838
Re: Is This a Good Deal???

It's about right on price but I would buy them separate and shoot the rifle first. While most will benefit from an accuracy package some shoot okay staight out of the box. And I would go for the Badger stuff over the IOR junk.
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2004, 09:11 PM
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Re: Is This a Good Deal???

I can't resist putting in a shameless plug for a PSS my brother's been trying to sell for awhile...

Here's the link...
http://www.longrangehunting.com/cgi-...c&f=9&t=001717

This thing shoots .5 MOA for me...
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2004, 06:11 PM
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Re: Is This a Good Deal???

I pick up a used rifle afew years back and had one of those package deals done to it and it shot pretty good in fact still have the rifle. The 308 is a pretty forgiving round and generally one of the better ones to play with. I agree with Chris shoot it first and go with the Badger I put those on a 6.5x284. Good luck.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2004, 11:55 PM
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Re: Is This a Good Deal???

IronJohn929,

As an accuracy minded gunsmith, I would tell you that rifle would be a waste of your time and money. Not that it would not shoot but let me explain why I say this.

First off, the Rem 700 is the single best factory action to build extreme accuracy rifles on, they got that right.

It does not list the price for the Stage 1 rifle but that is what I will be talking about and comparing things to since all the other stuff is just extras that are better selected by the rifle owner for their personal needs then by a rifle maker that knows nothing of the buyer.

Here we go.

First off, the biggest red flag is that they keep the original factory barrel. Bad idea. True most Rem barrels whoot very well and some are flat out scary accurate but it is a crap shoot to get those true tack drivers.

This is not the case with a top quality aftermarket barrel like my preferred Lilja blanks. If you build a rifle with a Lilja and it does not shoot well under 1/2 moa, the gun builder messed it up, no other excusses.

Every Lilja barrel that comes out of the shop is capable of 1/4 moa grouping and most much, much less then that.

THis is what you get for the extra cost, piece of mind that your barrel is top quality.

Some factory barrels will never shoot well no matter how much precision machining you perform on them, why gamble with your money, get a quality blank and do it right.

Next, they say they chase the receiver threads. Doing this will increase the diameter of the threads and will result in a looser barrel/receiver fit then it was before and most factory thread fits are very poor by comparision of a properly custom threaded class 3 thread fit.

This loose thread fit will result in fliers and inconsistancies on target. Even if they do square up the receiver face, which is a must, they still will not get much benefit from the poor thread fit.

I assume that since they say nothing of the recoil lug they use the factory one when tehy put the rifel back together. Problem here is that if they take the time to square the receiver face and the barrel shoulder and then put back in the factory lug that is sandwiched between the two, the uneven factory lug willdestroy any banafits of the squaring becasue they tend to be very inconsistant in thickness.

When a barrel is tightened down on these lugs, they are canted and stressed which will again lead to fliers and other inconstancies. Veru poor idea.

I install Holland Comp Recoil Lugs on all my Rem 700's, from big game rifles to 2000 yard BR guns. They are almost twice as thick, have much larger baring surfaces and are guaranteed uniform in thickness to within 0.0002" or less.

They are a much for extreme accuracy work or any kind.

Now lets talk about blue-printing the bolt. They lap the lugs in and thats about it.

To properly print the bolt, the front surface of the bolt should be trued, the bolt nose diameter should be turned true and concentric to the firing pin hole and the front surface of the locking lugs should be squared just as the baring surface should be squared.

Why all this machining, well in one of my Rem 700 rifles, I cut the bolt nose recess in the bolt 0.001" to 0.002" over bolt nose diameter and for 0.005" clearance in length.

If you take the measurements of a factory bolt nose to recess fit, you will be measurin gthem in the 0.010" ranges and often much more.

Again what does this do, well, this insures that the firing pin will hit the exact center of the firing pin ar at least within 0.001" of the center because the bolt can not move from side to side once the bolt is locked down. THis will also increase accuracy potential and consistancy.

It also make the rifle far stronger in the even that a case head seperates. IT will seal off the gas leakage dramatically better then a factory fitting.

Problem here is that since they only turn the barrel back one thread turn, they will still be using the factory bolt recess. Because of this they can not true up the bolt or the bolt nose to recess fit will get even looser then it is.

They are only taking off 0.0625" of barrel length adn the botl recesses are generally in the 0.170" to 0.190" range.

Along with this, if they only take off 0.0625" of barrel that leaves a very large portion of the chamebr neck left because the new chamebr job will not clean it up. Most chamber necks are at least .250" long and many are .300" or more.

Problem here, if you use a min spec reamer, the best for accuracy, they will have a small neck diameter then the factory chamebr and you will have a step in the neck of the chamber.

I am not talking about tight necked chambers that you must turn your case necks to work in. Just minimum spec necks will resultin this problem.

I assume they would not send a rifle out liek this so they will need to either use a reamer with a factory dimensioned neck or use a neck reamer to open the freshly cut neck up to factory specs to get rid og the step in the neck.

This will not give much of an advantage compared to a factory chamber, especially with the factory barrel.

For one of their stage 1 rifles, I would not pay more then $300 over teh price of the rifle for the work they do.

For an example, I charge $1000 for one of my custom built rifles if the custom supplies the Rem 700 action and I have the wanted reamer in stock.

If I have to supply the action and the reamer teh price is $1500.

What do you get for this package:

-27" Lilja barrel of any contour he lists

-Either Holland Signature laminated stock or H-S Composite stock of your choice(some H-S stocks and color options may cost extra)

-Action fully blue-printed with threads cut 0.010" over factory diameter.

-Holland Comp Recoil Lug installed

-H-S stocks steel bedded(they have aluminum bedding block, no need for pillars) or Holland Laminated stocks pillar bedded and steel bedded

-Barrel fitted, chambered, crowned, engraved for caliber and polished to a 400 gr finish.

-Trigger adjusted to 2.5 lbs if the factory trigger will safely adjust that low. A very few will not.

I use live piloted chambering reamers so my chambers are concentric to the bore to within 0.0002" or less and my crowning tools use teh same live pilots, so my crowns are also concentric to 0.0002" or less of the axis of the bore.

I engrave my barrels for caliber and do not hammer the caliber into the barrel steel, look 100 times classier.

This all for $1000 if you supply the action and worst case, $1500 if I supply the action and need to get a custom reamer.

Turn around time is basically 0ne to two weeks longer then it take to get the barrel in. If they are in stock, I can have a complete rifle built, range tested and shipped in two weeks max.

Have a rifle built instead of trusting others that are not doing the job as completely as thy should be.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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  #6  
Old 08-23-2004, 02:51 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Potter Co. PA
Posts: 135
Re: Is This a Good Deal???

if thats about what you want, pick up stl's pss, shoot it until it needs a new tube, then have custom one put on and in doing so, have the action trued, etc. doing any of that with the factory tube right now isnt going to do much. put the money towards reloading stuff and upgrade later.

besides, a factory 700p should shoot fine for ya anyhow. i got one in 308, and i keep everything under 1 moa out to 800 with it. when its ready, i'll go put a custom barrel on, much like i'm doing with my sendero.

-brian
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