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God groups but bad ES

 
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2011, 10:03 AM
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Re: God groups but bad ES

Your chonograph is broken
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2011, 11:17 AM
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Re: God groups but bad ES

1/4 MOA from 100 to 700 yards? Take "yes" for an answer and go hunting. It would be tough to shoot well enough to notice any improvement if you did find something to change.
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2011, 12:29 AM
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Re: God groups but bad ES

The ES measurement is just a means to an end. We strive for a low ES as a way of finding consistency, which generally equals accuracy, or small groups. If you are currently shooting consistently small groups that are holding out to 700+ yards - then forget about the ES. You have found the Holy Grail!
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  #11  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:16 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
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Re: God groups but bad ES

Do you want small ES or do you want small groups?

Just because your chrony is spitting stuff out doesn't mean it's necessarily true.

Bullet holes are reality.
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  #12  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:39 AM
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Re: Good groups but bad ES

I guess figured that if I could improve my ES, even by a little bit, my groups would improve even more.

Next time I go out, I will try the Chrony at 18' and at 100 yards and see if they settle down. Other than that, I think I will invest in some better dies and see what that does for me.

I do have another question though.

Does a match grade chambers tend to have higher chamber pressures compared to a standard chamber? It appears that I always have to stay on the lower end of the load book data. If I go up three grains I start seeing slight plunger marks on the bass. I know it is what it is and I have to live with it; I just want to make sure I learn from all my experiences.

Thanks for all you help.
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:25 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 327
Re: God groups but bad ES

Lesson #1 - chronies lie, groups dont...

Second point is - im not sure what your doing with your ballistic calculator, but my calculator is telling me that a 25fps velocity spread = 2.3in vertical POI shift @ 750yds, not 6inches...?

Lastly, have you tried a different primer? the fed 215 is the hottest primer on the market, you might try a slightly cooler one but dont go too cold in the 300RUM... id also give retumbo a go instead of H1000- you might have better luck with it - i did in my 338edge which was against the trend as most seem to do better with H1000...

Failing that, you can neck turn your brass, sort it by weight and case wall thickness and use a collet neck sizing die and vary your neck tension - also sort your bullets by bearing surface length... all these help with ES and theres not much else you can do after that...
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Last edited by groper; 03-16-2011 at 06:41 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:15 AM
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Re: Good groups but bad ES

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by azgutpile View Post
I guess figured that if I could improve my ES, even by a little bit, my groups would improve even more.

Next time I go out, I will try the Chrony at 18' and at 100 yards and see if they settle down. Other than that, I think I will invest in some better dies and see what that does for me.

I do have another question though.

Does a match grade chambers tend to have higher chamber pressures compared to a standard chamber? It appears that I always have to stay on the lower end of the load book data. If I go up three grains I start seeing slight plunger marks on the bass. I know it is what it is and I have to live with it; I just want to make sure I learn from all my experiences.

Thanks for all you help.
A 300 RUM has limited barrel life. If I was you, I would be very happy with .25 MOA @ 750 yds. In fact, I would be very happy with .5 MOA @ 750 yds for hunting. If I was a BR competitor, sure, I would do whatever I could to squeeze every last bit of accuracy out that I could but I always believe my groups more than my chronys. If you are getting consistant .25 MOA groups @ 750 yds your chrony is lying to you and you have a competitive winning BR rfile and load. If you want to burn up barrel life trying to make the chrony give you better numbers, that's your call. As for me, I would take that rifle and load and start getting very familiar with it at various distances and conditions. And, maybe when you move the chrony back a few feet, it might help, but who really cares? We have a very accomplished LRH member who has made multiple 1K plus one shot kills and he doesn't use a chrony at all.

And if you sell your dies, let me know. Have you checked your runout on brass and seated bullets? as far as dies go, that's all you really need to be concerned with other than maybe neck tension. If your getting good concentricity, you can't ask for much more from your dies.

I usually find very little to disagree on with Groper, but sorting brass by weight assumes that the weight is proportional to the volume of the case, which ain't necessarily so. The best thing to do IMO, is to sort by lot.

Yes, chambers and barrels can have an affect on pressure, as well as a lot of other things, but it's not a big deal if you're getting adequate velocity and accuracy.

Keep up the good shooting.

-Mark
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