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GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

 
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  #29  
Old 12-15-2011, 10:21 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

One thing I neglected to consider. Apparently the purchaser was going to use or at least was considering a suppressor. In that case I agree the recoil may have been close to unmanageable. Having shot 50 caliber rifles with muzzle breaks and with suppressors, the latter does little to reduce any recoil. I probably would have suggested a lesser caliber under the same circumstances.
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  #30  
Old 12-15-2011, 10:45 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

[QUOTE=phorwath;584427]Again, I contend the user's application of the rifle is being overlooked. Is a 7 1/2 lb rifle as accurate in the hands of the average hunter for purposes of connecting on game at 1000 yds as a 10 lb rifle? First is the lighter contoured and lighter weight rifle going to be as accurate. Secondly, in the hands of the average hunter, which rifle will be piloted to a higher level of accuracy........

I guarantee that my 7lb 12oz Outdoorsman rifle is every bit as accurate as my 11 lb Long Range Hunter. We build every single rifle we build as if it were a bench rest rifle, as I am sure those gun builders who hang out here do as well. When hunting at long range the only thing that counts is where that first round, and possibly the second round goes. The weight of the rifle or the contour of the barrel (within reason)has little or nothing to do with accuracy. What I will say is that a heavier rifle is easier to shoot as a general rule but not necessarily more accurate.

About muzzle breaks, I honestly can't remember whether it kicked up dust all over the place, I was focused on the elk and preparing for the second shot if necessary. I will admit I wear a pair of EAR electronic hearing protection which allows me to turn them up to be able to hear while in the field and shuts down from the blast of the shot. Just being prudent.
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  #31  
Old 12-15-2011, 11:15 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

[QUOTE=McMillan;584605]
Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
I guarantee that my 7lb 12oz Outdoorsman rifle is every bit as accurate as my 11 lb Long Range Hunter.
The claim that a 7 lb 12 oz rifle will be every bit as accurate as an 11 lb rifle is a unique and novel claim, based on my reading, research, and personal experiences. I'm glad that you're able to accomplish that with the McMillan line of rifles.

I won't pretend to speak on behalf of 'those gun builders that hang out here', but I can state that over the past six years and 8 months of hanging out here, I've read quite a few posts from gun builders on this Forum to the effect that 'optimally adding 3 lbs 4 oz of weight to a 7 lb 12 oz rifle that's chambered with a high powered cartridge intended to kill big game at 1000 yds will more often than not result in a rifle with a beefed up action and larger contoured barrel that will have the accuracy advantage over the lighter weight rifle'.

Lighter contoured barrels require more load development effort to find their best available accuracy, in my experience. The thinner the tube and longer the barrel, the greater the quantity of load development and range time required to realize the barrel/rifle's maximum potential. That in itself will often serve to decrease the accuracy realized out of a rifle with a lightweight barrel, compared to a rifle with a heavier contour barrel.
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  #32  
Old 12-16-2011, 02:12 AM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
Again, I contend the user's application of the rifle is being overlooked. Is a 7 1/2 lb rifle as accurate in the hands of the average hunter for purposes of connecting on game at 1000 yds as a 10 lb rifle? First is the lighter contoured and lighter weight rifle going to be as accurate. Secondly, in the hands of the average hunter, which rifle will be piloted to a higher level of accuracy at 1000 yds.

Not picking fights. Just providing differing use scenarios and how those should be considered prior to reaching final determinations as to 'the best cartridge'.
Well the "average hunter" can't hit an elephant broadside at 500yds much less a deer or even elk at 1,000yds no matter what they are carrying.
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  #33  
Old 12-16-2011, 02:21 AM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

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Originally Posted by TMR View Post
Easy decision, get one of each!


I agree with Kirby that there is no replacement for horsepower. I also agree with George in that there is no replacement for practice. All of my personal rifles are setup exactly the same way so the feel is the same no matter what rifle I get behind from my match rifles to hunting rifles. The recoil might change, but practice forces you to learn conditions. Obviously a 308 is going to be drastically different than a 300RUM in terms of ballistics, but the 308 forces you to know exactly what the wind is doing at all ranges. Thankfully my range of rifles is all pretty close on ballistics....the spread is about 1moa of windage at 1k among them. Brakes just make thing more pleasant to shoot. I (and alot of others including George and Kirby) run them on just about everything we have from 243's on up. Its not so much about recoil, its about recovering and staying on your target. Yup, there is alot of blast.....Yup a guy needs to wear hearing protection(which you should be anyway). The benefits do outweigh the downsides of brakes IMHO. The difference between a 7WSM with 180's and a 300RUM with 210's isn't that much at 1k, but it is a difference, with the performance going to the RUM. Recoil in a braked RUM or WSM is next to nothing and just not a concern. Both can be made to be extremely accurate. The RUM does suffer from poor barrel life, but that is the price of performance. That is why I build so many duplicate setups in smaller calibers for guys so they can shoot all year, then switch over to the big gun and never miss a beat.

There really isn't a wrong choice here. Just have to understand the differences and pick whats best for you. Its hard to have a "one gun does it all" rifle with a compromise somewhere.
Well said. I think there's a hell of a lot of misinformation about muzzle brakes being spouted all over the internet.

Yes some of them are utterly brutal with both the noise and the blast wave they generate.

However there are a number of models available that do not increase noise for the shooter or anyone directly beside or behind them and many that are side/top discharge only that will greatly reduce dusting.

I have a factory brake (soon to be replaced) on my 7mm STW that is absolutely brutal noise/blast wise and marginal at best at reducing muzzle flip and felt recoil.

I also have a Shrewd Varmint brake that is just a pleasure to shoot and virtually eliminates dusting.

On my Rum there is a Gentry Quiet brake which reduces muzzle flip and recoil dramatically and is exceptionally easy on my ears, but it's a 360 deg discharge so it's not particularly appropriate for prone shooting.

I like to shoot, hell I shoot usually at least four or five days a week and be it game or varmints I'm shooting critters of some sort just as often and muzzle brakes simply make shooting these rifles a much more enjoyable experience all the way around.
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  #34  
Old 12-16-2011, 02:27 AM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

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Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
Well the "average hunter" can't hit an elephant broadside at 500yds much less a deer or even elk at 1,000yds no matter what they are carrying.
And your comment contributes to this thread how? Do you require further clarification and further definition of all the other words I typed in my Post also? Substitute 'average long range hunter' since this Forum is entitled Long Range Hunting - if that helps. Substitute 'average extended long range hunter' if that helps you to comprehend my communication of information. Substitute the 'average life long, seasoned, practiced, and experienced extended long range hunter' if that assists your comprehension. Or just revert back to 'average hunter' if any or all of these three additional options leave you even more confused.
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  #35  
Old 12-16-2011, 02:32 AM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

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Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
And your comment contributes to this thread how? Do you require further clarification and further definition of all the other words I typed in my Post also? Substitute 'average long range hunter' since this Forum is entitled Long Range Hunting - if that helps. Substitute 'average extended long range hunter' if that helps you to comprehend my communication of information. Substitute the 'average life long, seasoned, practiced, and experienced extended long range hunter' if that assists your comprehension. Or just revert back to 'average hunter' if any or all of these these three additional options leave you even more confused.
How did it contribute? Well unlike your comment it was accurate.

I'm also quite sure that for those with a sense of humor it generated at least a grin if not a chuckle.
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