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GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

 
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  #22  
Old 12-15-2011, 05:41 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

The final weight of the rifle all decked out is an important consideration for some. In my case, 99% of my hunts are backpacking hunts. Involving packing in with enough gear and food to spend one night, or possibly two. The terrain is mountainous. Commonly hiking up a river cut 4 -6 miles and looking for game on the way in, while overnighting, and again on the walk out. If I shoot an animal, now I have to pack all my gear, plus the animal back out. I personally refuse to carry a rifle exceeding 10 to 10.5 lbs under these hunting conditions. I prefer the rifle not exceed 9 1/2 lbs.

So my rifles have lighter profile barrels. #3, #4, or #5 profile. With those lighter profile barrels, I selected the 300 WM for my backpacking rifle rather than a RUM sized cartridge. I tend to think the more horsepower being unleashed, the more rigid the shooting platform necessary to maintain equivalent accuracy. The 300 WM seemed the better alternative.

So as has been mentioned, the better cartridge can depend on user specific goals, methods, styles, and considerations. Any complete and thoughtful debate as to which cartridge is 'the best cartridge' is faulty, to the point of invalid, without specifying the end use parameters and the end user's application of the cartridge. I'd compare it to a which bridge is the best bridge debate - without identifying the loads the bridge is required to support.

I appreciate and respect these facts of life. A larger and heavier high BC bullet driven to higher velocity will increase the ease of connecting on long range targets, provided the rifle is inherently as accurate as a lesser horse-powered cartridge. So if I had a personal gun bearer packing my rifle, I'd always opt for a 16 lb 338 Allen magnum for purposes of harvesting a distant animal at 1000 yds, rather than my a 9 3/4 lb 300 WM for that same distant animal. But when the reality is such that I'm my own gun bearer, and I have to pack my rifle 5 miles in and back out of the wilds, I will always end up with my 9 3/4 lb 300 WM, and I am content with that compromise in down range performance, compared to a 300 RUM or 338 AM.

Last edited by phorwath; 12-15-2011 at 06:28 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-15-2011, 05:46 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

of course you guys only look at the upsides of a muzzlebrake, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DOWNSIDES??? the vias brake mentioned and most muzzlebrakes for that matter have holes all the way around them in a round fashion. what does this mean?? its going to kick up a ton of crap off the ground once you touch off the trigger for prone shot, is it not??? umm yeah it will. and for the purpose of long range hunting which we are all discussing its fair to say that if taking such a shot it should be from a prone position.

what about the freaking noise??? touch off just one braked 300 rum and for one everyone at the shooting range is going to be like WTF, what about in the field I and not wearing ear muffs. most people don't yeah is it a good idea not to? well no, but I think its fair to say most guys shooting more standard chamberings have decided its ok to go unmuffed for one shot. but throw in a 300 rum and a brake, its going to be too much.

look at some of the long range videos out there, most of the guys doing it are not using the RUM or other high intensity magnums of 30 cal or greater. heck alot of guys are doing alot with 6.5's. I contend if you need a brake you are shooting way too much gun, that is my opinion your entitles to yours, but from a practical standpoint your burning a ton less powder, your using bullets of equal or greater BC pushed to equal or greater speeds. all your giving up is energy by avoiding the big 30's, but gaining a rifle that has way less blast, no annoying muzzlebrake. I see more upsides and totally agree with the guy from GAP. another advantage of the WSM is its in a short action as well.

I also contend that the variables really start to stack against you once the distance gets beyond about 700 yards. wind calls need to be good, the shooter needs to know what they are doing, the equipment needs to be tested and proven at that distance. still the conditions may say its a bad idea to take a shot even at that distance. shooting a 300 rum is not going to make it easier to hit at those distances vs a 7 wsm that is being discussed.
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  #24  
Old 12-15-2011, 05:50 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

Looks like the OP may get the ******* contest he wanted, there is now three top end smiths with different opinions posting and only one that had contact with the actual customer. This should be epic!!!!!
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  #25  
Old 12-15-2011, 05:53 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMillan View Post
The Outdoorsman is 7lb 12 oz, has a fluted #5 barrel and a Vais muzzle break. Honestly it compares to the recoil of a .308 or less. I don't have a clue why anyone would talk someone out of a 300 RUM provided it has a well designed stock and a muzzle break.
Again, I contend the user's application of the rifle is being overlooked. Is a 7 1/2 lb rifle as accurate in the hands of the average hunter for purposes of connecting on game at 1000 yds as a 10 lb rifle? First is the lighter contoured and lighter weight rifle going to be as accurate. Secondly, in the hands of the average hunter, which rifle will be piloted to a higher level of accuracy at 1000 yds.

Not picking fights. Just providing differing use scenarios and how those should be considered prior to reaching final determinations as to 'the best cartridge'.

Last edited by phorwath; 12-15-2011 at 06:26 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-15-2011, 06:22 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

I just went through this exact decision, except the smith recommended the 7 rem mag. I ended up going with rem mag in the end for a lot of the reasons people have been pro 300wm/or 7 wsm. That thread was 300 rum with 210/230 bergers or 7mm 180 bergers at 3000 fps
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  #27  
Old 12-15-2011, 06:53 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

Easy decision, get one of each!


I agree with Kirby that there is no replacement for horsepower. I also agree with George in that there is no replacement for practice. All of my personal rifles are setup exactly the same way so the feel is the same no matter what rifle I get behind from my match rifles to hunting rifles. The recoil might change, but practice forces you to learn conditions. Obviously a 308 is going to be drastically different than a 300RUM in terms of ballistics, but the 308 forces you to know exactly what the wind is doing at all ranges. Thankfully my range of rifles is all pretty close on ballistics....the spread is about 1moa of windage at 1k among them. Brakes just make thing more pleasant to shoot. I (and alot of others including George and Kirby) run them on just about everything we have from 243's on up. Its not so much about recoil, its about recovering and staying on your target. Yup, there is alot of blast.....Yup a guy needs to wear hearing protection(which you should be anyway). The benefits do outweigh the downsides of brakes IMHO. The difference between a 7WSM with 180's and a 300RUM with 210's isn't that much at 1k, but it is a difference, with the performance going to the RUM. Recoil in a braked RUM or WSM is next to nothing and just not a concern. Both can be made to be extremely accurate. The RUM does suffer from poor barrel life, but that is the price of performance. That is why I build so many duplicate setups in smaller calibers for guys so they can shoot all year, then switch over to the big gun and never miss a beat.

There really isn't a wrong choice here. Just have to understand the differences and pick whats best for you. Its hard to have a "one gun does it all" rifle with a compromise somewhere.
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  #28  
Old 12-15-2011, 10:05 PM
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Re: GAP talked my buddy out of a 300 RUM

Alot of good points brought up in this thread, and some expressing opinion that seems to carry a bit of bias. Every rifle is individual to the owners needs and expectations.

Newbies are easy to spot weather via; face to face, e-mail, or phone.

When I make a contact, and cartrige selection comes up I always ask the folowing questions;

Realisticly what yardages to you plan on harvesting game?
What species of game will be the largest you hunt?
Do you oppose a muzzle brake or are you good with one?(suprising to some but many customers actually want them)
What would be your ideal rifle weight?
Are you an experienced handloader? or do you plan on using factory ammo?

With out these answers, it is hard to fit a gun to a customer, final weight may be dependent on the component selection. Some new guys think a 9lb 300/338 super banger is easy to build with a 30" barrel and an A-5 stock, and NF scope.
Well they need a reality check, or a mid range 7mm.



As far as what went on with the OP friend;
If the answer to the last question is "factory" The 300 win mag is a perfect choice, in a LR elk gun, many great accurate factory load offering.
If he wanted a 9.5lb rifle, again a 300wm with a 26" barrel, near perfect.
If he wanted a 8.5lb gun I would have pushed him hard toward a short mag.

If he asked for a 12-15lb rifle with a brake, sure step up to a RUM based cartrige.

BUT NONE OF US EXCEPT George know exactly what the parameters of the build are, because he holds the work order.

Do I have favorite cartiges sure, many, I use one over the other based on; range, gun weight, game, terain and confidence. A newbie needs to start somewhere to gain experience and learn what he likes, under what conditions. At least the OPs friend is off to a good start.


The only point I disagree with is that at 1997 yards that elk would have dropped on his dick!
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