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View Poll Results: How do y'all prepare your ammo for long range hunting?
Full lenght resize 129 48.86%
Neck size only with occasional shoulder bump 133 50.38%
Factory loads only 2 0.76%
Voters: 264. This poll is closed

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Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

 
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  #43  
Old 05-24-2013, 09:28 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: texas
Posts: 344
Re: Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

I neck size then after 5 loadings FL size , nothing wrong with RCBS but , I FL sized some 1 shot cases for my 308 ,
5 with the RCBS FL die
5 with my redding FL dies

Checked the runout at the neck
RCBS was .005
Redding was .003

When I load with the RCBS after seating bullets are from .005-.008 runout
Redding are .002-.005 runout

This is just my experience
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  #44  
Old 05-25-2013, 08:54 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S.E. Michigan
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Re: Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog67 View Post
I neck size then after 5 loadings FL size , nothing wrong with RCBS but , I FL sized some 1 shot cases for my 308 ,
5 with the RCBS FL die
5 with my redding FL dies

Checked the runout at the neck
RCBS was .005
Redding was .003

When I load with the RCBS after seating bullets are from .005-.008 runout
Redding are .002-.005 runout

This is just my experience
Lets dissect that a bit. You say the RCBS is 0.005 and the Redding is 0.003. Thats actually TIR (total indicated runout). your actual off center is half that or 0.0025 for the RCBS and 0.0015 for the Redding respectively. One, thats most likely well within the TIR for a factory bore and two, taking into account the components themselves and your indicator (which I presume is not tenths indicating but instead thousanths indicating, your runout is conjecture.

It's very difficult to measure in tenths with any factory made jig with component parts in a reloading bench scenario.

Not saying you can't, what I'm saying is the procedure isn't consistent. Too many varibles...... and...

Unless the projectile is crammed into the lands (throat of the rifling) upon loading (which is pretty much impossible because the bolt won't close), the 'jump' from the case neck to the lands is, in fact air space, so any small amount of initial runout will be offset as the projectile seats in the throat and begins it's trip down the rifling.

What I'm saying is that 2 or 3 or even 6 or 7 thousands is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and measuring inconsistencies due to human error and the measuring jig itself, degrade the validity of that measurement.

You can massage your cases as much as you want to and reduce the initial runout to nil (if possible) but you still are dealing with bullet jump, bore runout, barrel to chamber fit and even your shooting style which all contribute to the tound not going exactly where you want it to.

Have fun.

I found myself that RCBS dies tend to have the expander ball assembly seat in the die offcenter from the factory, and easy fix that takes some time and patience on your part. It has to be manulipulated a bit and retightened more than once. No biggie.
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  #45  
Old 05-25-2013, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pocahontas, AR
Posts: 876
Re: Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

Like some, I have been neck sizing 4-5 times and then FL sizing. When I neck size, I have left the expander ball out if loading for one rifle, using a Lee deprimer to drop out the primer. Is this bad?
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  #46  
Old 05-25-2013, 08:50 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 361
Re: Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

My 7 mag Hart barrel is more accurate FL sizing than neck sizing. Don't understand why! With the previous barrel, neck sizing was the norm and more accurate, but not with the Hart which shoots lights out.
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  #47  
Old 05-26-2013, 01:44 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 268
Re: Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip View Post
Lets dissect that a bit. You say the RCBS is 0.005 and the Redding is 0.003. Thats actually TIR (total indicated runout). your actual off center is half that or 0.0025 for the RCBS and 0.0015 for the Redding respectively. One, thats most likely well within the TIR for a factory bore and two, taking into account the components themselves and your indicator (which I presume is not tenths indicating but instead thousanths indicating, your runout is conjecture.

It's very difficult to measure in tenths with any factory made jig with component parts in a reloading bench scenario.

Not saying you can't, what I'm saying is the procedure isn't consistent. Too many varibles...... and...

Unless the projectile is crammed into the lands (throat of the rifling) upon loading (which is pretty much impossible because the bolt won't close), the 'jump' from the case neck to the lands is, in fact air space, so any small amount of initial runout will be offset as the projectile seats in the throat and begins it's trip down the rifling.

What I'm saying is that 2 or 3 or even 6 or 7 thousands is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and measuring inconsistencies due to human error and the measuring jig itself, degrade the validity of that measurement.

You can massage your cases as much as you want to and reduce the initial runout to nil (if possible) but you still are dealing with bullet jump, bore runout, barrel to chamber fit and even your shooting style which all contribute to the tound not going exactly where you want it to.

Have fun.

I found myself that RCBS dies tend to have the expander ball assembly seat in the die offcenter from the factory, and easy fix that takes some time and patience on your part. It has to be manulipulated a bit and retightened more than once. No biggie.
I don't understand.
So you are suggesting he can't read 0.002-0.005 TIR with a standard dial indicator and runout v-block roller setup?
The design of a well made roller block is such that it will take up any slack (by the rollers spreading under pressure taking up any slack in the system). This in conjunction with a case head stop provides a very repeatable gauge.

Standard dial gauges read in 0.001 increments and ten thou gauges measure in 0.0001 increments.

Not that I am suggesting it, but I have a 10 thou indicator that does work on the same system and though not very practical it is very accurate.

I agree about 6-7 TIR being the magic number.
Once TIR is less than 0.006 you might as well look elsewhere for accuracy gains.
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  #48  
Old 05-26-2013, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S.E. Michigan
Posts: 3,421
Re: Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

What I said was concerning case neck concentricity is the indicated runout is half the actual error, not the actual error. Additionally, to read a tenth on any indicator in any jig, requires an extremely rigid mount and none that I've seen for sale offer a rigid enough mount to in indcate a tenth, in fact, all that I've seen come with a thousandth indicator and a thousand of an inch will be on a good day and not repeatable.

In as much as I own a machine shop (and I deal with tenths and hundreths and millionths of an inch), I know full well about the parameters of measurement in small increments.

When dealing in tenths, just the heat from your fingers or a cold draft or your warm breath will have an impact on the reading, especially with brass that has a high coefficient of expansion (and conversely contracton).

For accurate and repeatable measuring in 0.0001 or better, the enviroment must be controlled. Thats not happening on a reloading bench, in your study or anywhere else in a home or garage.

Thats all, nothing more.
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  #49  
Old 05-26-2013, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,228
Re: Full length resize or neck size only for y'all long range hunters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomosendero View Post
Like some, I have been neck sizing 4-5 times and then FL sizing. When I neck size, I have left the expander ball out if loading for one rifle, using a Lee deprimer to drop out the primer. Is this bad?
No, its not bad. There are obviously proponents of each method. I use both depending on the specific rifle/chamber, and the results I get with accuracy and ES. The benchresters prefer FL sizing. They also prefer 5 ounce trigger pulls. The possible .1-.2 MOA benefit for hunting, even at long range probably gets nullified by other factors.
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